Have you ever ever thought-about constructing a venture in public?
On this week’s episode of the Area of interest Pursuits podcast, Noah Bragg shares his journey of launching, rising, and finally promoting Potion. It is a web site builder constructed on high of Notion that lets customers create optimized websites in minutes.
Noah began by utilizing the “construct in public” method, sharing his progress and journey on Twitter. And with the assist of an open-source group, his personal software program improvement expertise, and a strategic advertising and marketing technique grew the success story he shares at the moment.
Here is a fast rundown of Potion (though you will wish to leap down the web page to observe the complete interview):
Noah initially priced the product at simply $6 per website and gained his first 75 prospects via Twitter.
In fact, he wished to additional increase his buyer base and proceed constructing consciousness. So, he strategically launched on Product Hunt as soon as he already had a little bit of a group to assist him promote and upvote it.
As Potion continued to develop, Noah centered on compounding development and decreasing churn.
There have been plenty of ups and downs all through this course of although and Noah does an awesome job of highlighting what appeared to work finest for him.
Ultimately, he managed to achieve $6k MRR (month-to-month recurring income) and promote it for $300k after simply 2 and a half years of labor.
Noah is now engaged on a brand new venture within the crypto house known as TrustScore which goals to supply information and content material to assist customers consider and belief completely different crypto initiatives. He plans to share his progress on Twitter and YouTube, and should even proceed the build-in-public method that labored so properly for him with Potion.
Noah’s story is a superb instance of strategic planning and execution. And the way in which he thinks about issues and solves issues will definitely assist get the gears shifting on your personal initiatives.
Hope you get pleasure from!
Watch The Interview
Subjects Noah Bragg Covers
- Noah’s historical past of aspect hustles
- Deciding between VC vs bootstrapping
- The challenges of elevating cash
- How a lot time he labored on Potion
- Advantages of constructing in public
- Understanding your goal market
- How his expertise helped
- Gaining traction
- Pigbacking on the expansion of larger platforms
- Efficient advertising and marketing methods
- Product Hunt launch
- Ideas for an efficient Product Hunt launch
- Combatting churn
- Simplifying the onboarding course of
- Associates for promotion
- Keys to SaaS search engine optimization
- Selecting to promote
- Ideas for bootstrapping a enterprise
- His present venture
- And a complete lot extra…
Hyperlinks & Assets
Jared: And welcome again to the Area of interest Pursuits podcast. My title is Jared Bauman and at the moment we’re joined by Noah Bragg. Noah, welcome on board.
Noah: Hey, thanks for having me, Jared.
Jared: It’ll be nice to have you ever. You already know, you you are, you are a in-built public form of man, which suggests that you will be an immediate an immediate fan of the Area of interest Pursuits viewers right here.
And at the moment we will actually dive deep into this story you have got of the way you mainly constructed a enterprise. In public on-line and went on to promote it. We’ll get to listen to all the main points, however earlier than we get into that, can possibly give us some backstory and who you’re, form of a few of the belongings you’ve been concerned in over time, form of catch us as much as the place you began this venture we will discuss at the moment.
Noah: Yeah. Nicely, to start with. The place I actually acquired into like constructing issues, making issues was truly most likely like in highschool, I began like mainly it began with a YouTube channel. I, I do not advise folks to return and watch that, that YouTube channel. It is most likely be fairly fairly embarrassing, however.
Yeah, I made like let’s play and recreation stuff. And for no matter purpose, creating movies acquired me simply into like, I loved creating. I form of discovered that that was one thing I used to be into. And that form of acquired me into the pc world, programming world, laptop science. And so then I made a decision to go to school for laptop science and I form of simply at all times had some form of.
I used to be engaged on some form of aspect enterprise. So form of ever since then I used to be at all times constructing issues, making issues labored at a few completely different tech firms after school, however nonetheless had like completely different aspect companies. And so, yeah, I’ve most likely been doing the entrepreneur factor for about 5 years ish or extra just a little bit extra now.
Had had one in every of my first startups the place I stop my job to form of do it with a buddy for a yr. That one did not work out that properly. In that case, it was, it was known as espresso go. We have been attempting to love form of do extra of the VC factor, like increase cash, construct like an enormous enterprise and you recognize, it did not work out.
However via that I discovered rather a lot and form of. I, I form of wish to do extra of this like indie hacker bootstrapper form of approach of doing issues. And, you recognize, I form of discovered a group on-line of individuals doing that. And I used to be like, okay, I feel that could be a greater route for me the place it isn’t as nerve-racking.
You form of get to only. Construct what you wish to construct. It does not should be an enormous enterprise. Perhaps construct it, you recognize, solo, like I’ve carried out up to now, or possibly small crew or one thing like that. And so that is what I’ve carried out with the final couple of companies. Assist man was a micro SAS I did. After which potion is the extra, the newest one which’s carried out fairly properly.
So yeah, I’ve, I’ve had enjoyable with that. Similar to creating issues and making stuff on-line.
Jared: I imply, you form of possibly earlier than we drill into the main points, however one excessive stage query, you form of stratify each side of constructing a enterprise, which is that this. Tremendous, form of, you known as it indie, form of, indie hack, form of, constructing a enterprise.
Very lean, very, quite simple. And then you definitely even have this, exit and get funding, increase VC, you recognize, all that stuff. Like, having seen each side, I do know, clearly, it appears you land on the aspect of being lean. However possibly why are the explanations that you’d land it there? And what are the explanations any individual would take into account VC?
Or what, what scenario would make it good to go down that street?
Noah: Yeah, I imply for me prefer it simply appeared like doing the bootstrapper route prefer it simply gave much more Optionality to make a enterprise that would truly like succeed as a result of the the targets that you need to hit simply aren’t close to as excessive We’re form of with that first enterprise.
There was extra of a startup form of technique it was form of like if we did not increase some huge cash and like Undergo like, like we have been going to love the enterprise mannequin wasn’t even there till you get to scale mainly. And so it was simply approach riskier of identical to, you recognize, you even hear of like.
Uber and a few of these different huge startups the place it is like, they, they’re form of like simply dropping cash for years earlier than they will possibly even get to a spot the place they’re worthwhile. It is that form of enterprise mannequin that you recognize, it will probably undoubtedly work, however I simply suppose it is much more dangerous and much more nerve-racking.
And in order that’s form of why I’ve determined to go. Sort of extra of the bootstrap route, to not say like, even I have been considering for the longer term, like, I feel I might be okay elevating some cash. It is simply, I wish to form of do it in a approach that is hopefully on my phrases, like possibly do it later after I’ve form of gotten issues working and form of can see a path that is smart the place I am utilizing the cash for a selected goal the place it isn’t, I am simply going to should preserve elevating and elevating and elevating like some startups form of do.
In order that’s how I give it some thought. Clearly you are able to do both approach. And I have not had a ton of expertise with the VC route. Like that first, that first time was we have been form of simply within the early phases of simply attempting to lift cash and stuff. We did not even increase that a lot earlier than we form of began to see issues weren’t figuring out very properly.
So I have not gone down that path tremendous far to actually have a ton of expertise with it. However that is form of the trail I’ve chosen form of going ahead.
Jared: Yeah. Is sensible. Yep. Yeah. You highlighted lots of the issues that. Our, our wholesome issues relating to elevating cash and, and, and like constructing a giant enterprise, it will probably, it is a a lot completely different proposition.
So, properly, let’s let’s discuss potion as a result of that is what we’re right here to speak about at the moment. And you recognize, I, possibly I at all times wish to ask on the outset simply to present folks just a little little bit of an perception, like possibly inform us just a little bit about what it’s and, and possibly stroll us via simply the place it ended for you, the place it ended up for you, the place it is at at the moment.
After which we will form of unwind the story of the way you created it.
Noah: Yeah, so Potion is a web site builder constructed on high of Notion. So it’s extremely a lot constructed for notion customers, folks that love utilizing notion. It lets you simply form of do all of your content material via Notion after which Potion does the internet hosting of the web site and form of updates to no matter you form of change your notion pages to potion will, will mirror that so that you just form of have a very simple setup on your web site the place you are gonna should.
You already know, go into like a WordPress and alter issues and, and try this form of factor. And it was very a lot so form of focused at like professional customers, you recognize, different folks which can be making a enterprise possibly, or attempting to promote one thing on-line. And so form of construct it began at round two and a half years in the past construct it as much as over 6, 000 MRR after which about two months in the past now offered it for 300 Okay.
Congratulations. That is thanks. Yeah. Yeah. It was enjoyable. That is
Jared: tremendous cool. And I feel you have been saying at one level I learn that it actually, When you constructed it, it wasn’t taking very a lot of your time and I feel that is most likely probably the most attention-grabbing piece. Like, it is one factor to construct a enterprise that’s making six grand a month.
It is one other factor to promote it. It is one other factor whenever you share what number of hours, I feel you stated you have been spending solely a pair hours per week on it as soon as you bought it off the bottom.
Noah: Yeah, yeah, that is true. And I assume so as to add just a little extra coloration to that, I really feel like with any, any enterprise, it is like you are able to do that the place it is like I acquired to some extent, yeah, the place I used to be spending a pair hours per week on it.
However there’s like, there are factors the place it is like, all proper, you recognize, possibly one thing breaks now you have to spend extra time or, or virtually felt like you need to use up form of like say like for six months, possibly I spend much less time on it and a few methods the enterprise is possibly falling behind just a little bit, possibly in opposition to rivals or simply on the advertising and marketing aspect.
After which. To form of preserve it going, you may need to return and spend extra time on it. I feel that is how our, that is form of the place I used to be at with it, the place I wasn’t spending a ton of time on it, however on the identical time, possibly I felt just a little bit like possibly I am not getting as a lot out of this as a result of I am not doing it.
And so it is all form of just a little little bit of a commerce off there, however yeah, I form of acquired it to, yeah, the place I wasn’t spending all my time on it, which was good. That is nice. That is
Jared: nice. Yeah. Nicely, why do not you let’s, let’s let’s unpack this story. I imply, I feel like, like I discussed on the outset, you, you, you went with a construct in public mannequin, possibly let’s return to the early days of potion and what gave you the concept for it.
After which if I might ask a second query, like. Why the construct in public and, and, you recognize, since you shared rather a lot alongside the way in which. So I am simply curious the place the concept was after which why do it in entrance, in entrance
Noah: of everybody. Yeah, so the concept form of got here round this assumption I had that for an indie hacker, for a sole entrepreneur, it was an awesome form of technique to construct on high of one other platform simply because, you recognize, you form of, your, your customers are already there.
Such as you form of know who they’re. They’re, they’re folks which can be utilizing that platform. And. It is form of discover coronary heart simpler to do advertising and marketing due to that. A whole lot of occasions these platforms have like a market you possibly can put in your, your product on and also you get prospects that approach. So yeah, I believed it made lots of sense for an indie hacker form of enterprise.
And so I used to be on the lookout for completely different platforms to construct on high of. I had been utilizing notion for a couple of yr by that point. And the opposite pattern I used to be form of seeing is, you recognize, these different platforms like intercom or slack, like I had talked to a few the entrepreneurs of, you recognize, folks that constructed on high of these platforms.
Oh, you recognize, bootstrappers constructing little instruments and issues. And those that appear to do properly are ones that have been early to these platforms. Like I form of see that sample, like that they had gotten there earlier than. Perhaps the enterprise grew a ton, you recognize, intercom grew much more, issues like that. And so then that made like notion form of pop up in my thoughts as a result of notion was.
You already know, pretty new. It was form of, folks have been beginning to discuss it rather a lot, however it, you recognize, they did not have like a API. They did not have like a market but. So it appeared like, okay, possibly that is early days to form of leap on that notion wave. And in order that’s form of the place I began on the lookout for concepts on high of notion.
And I noticed this different instrument that somebody had randomly put collectively known as fruition, which was form of this. Actually hacky put collectively form of factor the place it wasn’t a paid instrument or something. It was only a, they form of confirmed you this little information of how you possibly can hack some code collectively on cloudflare to level your customized area to your public notion pages.
So it wasn’t like an actual web site or something, however. And it was, you recognize, you needed to form of know the right way to, the right way to set that up, however I noticed lots of of individuals had, had used that. And in order that form of made me suppose like, Oh, possibly there’s like truly one thing right here like that to form of present there’s demand for individuals are like desirous to have like a web site form of hooked up to Notion.
And in order that’s form of the place the concept for Potion got here. I got here up with that. And. You already know, form of talked round asking folks what they thought and began to see like, okay, I feel there’s, there’s one thing right here and that is form of once I began on it. After which with the constructing public form of with my earlier Microsoft assist, man, I might began to form of share extra.
that on Twitter and different locations. And I simply, I simply noticed that I actually loved that. It was, it was one thing that really form of was very motivating to me to love put, put on the market what I am attempting to do. And now it is like individuals are on the market form of maintaining me accountable and that simply appeared to work rather well for a way I work and, and motivating me.
So I actually loved that a part of it. I, you recognize, I loved attempting to assist different folks with what I am sharing. So it, it simply made lots of sense to me that. Potion is, you recognize, it is, it is the, the goal prospects are different entrepreneurs, different creators. And that is normally the form of folks that like falling, constructing, constructing public form of stuff.
And so it simply appeared like a very good match for the enterprise and what I love to do the place it made sense to only form of share all of it and do the constructing public form of factor. It is actually
Jared: strategic in your half. I imply, they discuss whenever you’re beginning a enterprise, you recognize, perceive your goal market and clearly.
Lots of people will say construct in public, the accountability portion, you recognize, and the flexibility to, to, to, to pressure you to form of hit targets or milestones or not go away the venture behind. However rather a lot, lots of people, once they discuss, however in public, discuss the truth that, properly, Hey, I recognized my goal market is X and X loves to observe folks construct stuff.
Trigger that is what they do. They usually hang around on Twitter. So I will construct in public on Twitter. That is actually
Noah: strategic in your half. Thanks. Yeah. I imply, that is what I, I attempt to do. And, and so in lots of methods, I did not see it as advertising and marketing, however it form of was advertising and marketing in a approach. However I imply, I assume that is, that is what makes good advertising and marketing is when it does not really feel like advertising and marketing.
Not less than it did not to me, however yeah, it form of was. Yeah. I imply,
Jared: it is genuine too. That is the, that is a 3rd good thing about it. Sure. It’ll maintain you accountable to a point. And sure, you are actually speaking to your goal market, however you are additionally form of exhibiting your self as an genuine. Creator, which, which, you recognize, folks love, folks have a tendency to love that and have a tendency to form of gravitate in direction of manufacturers which can be extra genuine.
So I feel it is actually good. Sort of acquired my wheels spinning already. So like, let’s discuss these early days. A giant drawback lots of people have once they provide you with an thought is like getting the product out the door. Typically, you recognize, prices can overrun and I will not undergo all of the issues that may go flawed.
How have been the early days of getting the product out the door? How did you construct it in a approach that you just saved prices down? And, you recognize, I am simply inquisitive about that
Noah: course of. Yeah. One of many good issues early on, like within the early days is there have been beginning to be just a little open supply group round this venture known as react notion X, the place completely different builders have been form of constructing form of like a, an HTML form of construct or round notion the place it could carry notion information after which flip that into HTML that form of.
Appears and is designed to look form of like notion. And so mainly I, I jumped into that open supply group and began like serving to with that and, and utilizing it for potion. And it was form of good trigger there’s, you recognize, it is, it isn’t simply me engaged on this one venture that then helps, you recognize, my enterprise, however it’s, it is serving to different folks.
And so then I am not having to do it fully alone. In order that was, that was one factor that undoubtedly helped. Trigger you recognize, it is a, it is a fairly large raise to form of in some methods replicate notion and what it appears like. And in order that open supply venture actually helped with that aspect of issues and helped form of make that go sooner with the constructing aspect.
You already know, I have been doing the software program improvement stuff for some time. And so clearly like that helps having simply that have. I feel it took. Round two months to get to love my MVP, like first model of potion. Earlier than I form of did like an early entry form of launch with it. So it took just a little little bit of time, however not too lengthy.
Like I, you recognize, I did not need it to take ceaselessly earlier than I might begin to get suggestions, have folks attempting out the product and see the way it works and get some suggestions if I ought to preserve doing what I used to be doing. However yeah, I imply, that is, that is form of, I assume that is form of what the early days form of formed as much as be.
And like, I used to be, you recognize, doing the construct in public once more was very motivating. Like I used to be, I used to be making like a two minute video virtually daily, particularly in these early days, simply form of sharing the progress, sharing what I used to be doing. And in order that undoubtedly made me really feel like, all proper, I want to love preserve engaged on this, preserve making issues occur.
And at the moment, prefer it was, I had a full time job, so it was identical to an element time factor. Like I’d come again on within the evenings truly, no, it was lots of the occasions I might do like an hour and a half or so earlier than work after which possibly one other hour within the night to construct out that first model.
After which, you recognize, work just a little bit extra on the weekend. So I used to be simply so. I feel what it was is I used to be simply so assured that I believed it was a good suggestion that that was actually motivating to love, okay, I feel that is going to work. I simply want to love put within the time to do it. And so that is what gave me form of the fireplace to love make it occur in these first couple of months and attempt to like construct one thing out and, and get one thing out the door.
Jared: a lot expertise did you carry? You talked about you had some expertise, so I am referencing that, however how a lot expertise did you carry with constructing? Name it software program. How a lot of this did you do your self versus working with a developer? And once more, simply enthusiastic about the one who’s listening who ranges, you recognize, spreads the vary of not having any, you recognize, dev expertise all the way in which up of expertise and possibly taking an thought and going ahead with it.
Noah: Yeah, so I am, I imply, by that time I used to be undoubtedly blessed to have some expertise in, in, in doing software program improvement. So by that point I might most likely been in like tech firms for 5 years, like, you recognize, doing internet improvement, cellular improvement for various tech firms. However then on high of that.
It was most likely, I imply, it is laborious to rely companies from a few of the early ons the place it is like, you recognize, it was a some aspect venture for a pair months, however most likely like my fifth form of enterprise that I’ve carried out, you recognize, constructing on the aspect. So yeah, I, I did, I constructed all the pieces myself and did not actually need any assistance on the software program improvement aspect simply trigger I’ve had that have which undoubtedly helps form of get the ball operating faster, I feel.
Yeah. That does not imply it isn’t doable if you have not had that have or if you recognize, you possibly have to get somebody that can assist you do a few of the constructing half. However that is, that is the way it form of labored for me. Yeah,
Jared: that is nice. So let’s discuss concerning the early days of, of, of launching the product, being profitable, getting prospects, possibly stroll us via that first course of that you just went via.
And once more, you outlined this by the way in which, for everyone listening, I will embrace a hyperlink. Within the present notes to this sort of abstract Twitter thread you probably did on the method and the place I discovered rather a lot about it, however discuss via these first prospects and form of what you went via and what you shared about how you bought these first few prospects
Noah: within the door.
Yeah. So I, I acquired the primary prospects from Twitter from doing the constructing public. I might say like my first 75 prospects have been from Twitter. And in order that was the place it was. Yeah. The constructing public was undoubtedly helpful for me the place I did not really feel like I needed to exit like for lots of my different companies.
Prefer it was, you recognize, Actually laborious to love get these first couple of shoppers and it simply form of felt like, you recognize, I needed to go and like message folks and discuss to folks and it was only a actually laborious factor The place if this prefer it was identical to I used to be identical to form of sharing what I used to be doing and truly my my first tweet about potion like constructing in public was truly a tweet the place I stated like i’ll begin constructing in public I will begin constructing a sass in public tomorrow or one thing like that.
It was like this actually brief factor. After which like a few like greater, like tech Twitter accounts noticed that and like retweeted it. And that tweet acquired me like a thousand followers inside 24 hours. And I, I did not have that many followers again like in that, that once I began. And in order that was form of the beginning of it.
That was undoubtedly like a pleasant little push of like, Oh wow. Like there’s. Already from the start, folks have been fascinated with what I used to be doing. I feel one other factor to form of assist with that’s that, I do not know, like two and a half years in the past, I do not suppose the constructing, the constructing public wasn’t as like everybody was doing it.
I really feel like these days it seems like form of everybody’s doing the constructing public on Twitter. And so it is simply, it is actually crowded, which, you recognize, it makes it tougher to love, you recognize, have folks form of have an interest or see what you are doing, as a result of simply lots of people are doing it. And so I feel that was one other timing factor that helped the place.
I used to be form of beginning to do the constructing in public earlier when it wasn’t as a crowded factor. In order that’s, that is the place a few of these early tweets possibly did properly and, and folks began following alongside. However yeah, that is, that is the place form of the primary prospects got here from. I the, the pricing of the product was tremendous, like I, I simply, you recognize, I used to be very form of virtually self aware of like, Oh man, I do not learn about this.
Like I, so I priced it actually cheaply early on. I feel it was like 6 a website. Was like my first pricing the place now it is as much as like 12 a website, which might be nonetheless low-cost. However. Yeah. So I, I form of began it out cheaply, which form of simply acquired folks within the door and form of simply began, began studying from these early customers.
I began, I did like an early entry for the primary two months. And I feel on like day two is once I acquired my first buyer. So issues simply form of went pretty rapidly from then on. Simply, I feel once more, due to form of the issues that have been occurring on Twitter and folks have been seeing what I used to be doing and I feel the, the issue form of fitted.
It form of match a story of, of notion that was happening. Nicely, like 2022, I feel I noticed one thing that confirmed that notion was the quickest rising startup in 2022. So, you recognize, timing is, is absolutely, you recognize, there’s some issues that I haven’t got management of that have been undoubtedly like a blessing the place it is like, you recognize, placing myself on high of notion the place notion was doing rather well.
And a few of these issues undoubtedly helped the enterprise do properly due to that. Yeah. We interviewed
Jared: any individual. Some time again now, I do not even know, a yr or two in the past that form of was on the early days of the Airbnb launch and have been capable of form of journey that wave and so they had a web site that was actually I do not bear in mind the main points, however they have been form of piggybacking off Airbnb and, you recognize, Airbnb clearly this, you recognize, meteoric rise at one level and, you recognize, so it sounds such as you’re capable of form of piggyback off what Notion is doing, which they have been killing it.
So that you have been on the early days of that, the early days of constructing public. Good
Noah: storm. Yeah, for certain. Good. Yeah. Yeah, undoubtedly. I really feel blessed that that, you recognize, that it labored out that approach.
Jared: Yeah. However you additionally had insights. I imply, the flip aspect of that, it is, it is easy to look again, you recognize, hindsight’s 20, 20, as they are saying, it is easy to look again and say, Oh, have a look at, you recognize, good timing with notion.
However the factor about additionally it is like, you recognize, you do not know that notion is definitely going to go on to blow up like they did. Like it’s kind of of a danger, proper? What in the event you determined to construct this product for notion and, you recognize, it goes the alternative approach and nobody’s actually fascinated with notion a yr or two later.
So it is also acquired some danger to it, however you took that. That you just took that likelihood and it labored out so it is also pretty strategic, however you recognize, it does not at all times go that approach. So
Noah: true. That is true.
Jared: I imply, I am simply doing a little math right here. I’ve down that, you recognize, you bought in some unspecified time in the future in some variety of months, about 75 preliminary prospects from, from Twitter and at 6 a month, I imply, that is 450 a month in, in MRR month-to-month recurring income.
That is some. I do not know the way you are feeling. That looks as if a fairly good launch for not having
Noah: any advertising and marketing and spend on that. Yeah, for certain. Like, yeah, prefer it was all natural and I feel that, you recognize, these first 75 prospects was in like two months time I feel. So yeah, it was like, it was fairly good to love begin out and get it form of rolling that rapidly.
Undoubtedly form of confirmed me like, okay, I feel there’s one thing right here. Like I can preserve constructing on this, making it higher, continue to grow it. Undoubtedly was a constructive response. Did you ever
Jared: sit, like did you ever sit down at any level and simply form of provide you with like a advertising and marketing plan or I will begin right here and I will attempt to get, You already know, my first 75 prospects this fashion, after which I will want my subsequent.
50 prospects this fashion or was it only a actually natural strategy of launching and rising the,
Noah: the, the model? I imply I undoubtedly form of labored via completely different like advertising and marketing issues like what might I do to, to make the enterprise develop and make it higher. I feel earlier on form of a plan was, you recognize, simply form of do the launch on Twitter, form of share on Twitter.
After which as soon as I form of acquired issues going to do a product hunt launch simply because I’ve heard like, you recognize, completely different form of indie companies have carried out fairly properly from doing a very good product hunt launch and getting that to form of, in the event you get, you recognize, one in every of, quantity one of many day or quantity one of many week, like you will get an honest inflow of individuals.
And in order that was form of the technique then. Aside from that, like, I did not have a ton of technique apart from identical to persevering with to form of construct in public, make the product higher. In a while although, I form of, you recognize, needed to form of dig down and really feel and form of determine some extra advertising and marketing methods that may form of get me to the following stage.
And mainly there was two of these. One was actually attempting to get the search engine optimization for the positioning to form of construct up, simply get much more. Natural site visitors coming to the potion web site to get new customers. After which the second was form of constructing out an associates program the place I might have some completely different associates, you recognize, notion creators, folks that possibly have a following on Twitter or YouTube or different locations, simply speaking about potion, extra sharing about potion and, and getting, you recognize, sharing a reduce with them, however getting extra prospects coming in that approach.
So these have been form of my foremost advertising and marketing methods, however these got here just a little bit later, possibly after the. The primary yr of operating the enterprise, you talked about product hunt. Let’s discuss that.
Jared: I am curious your expertise with it and the way it did for you. And you recognize, it looks as if the proper sort of product to go on someplace like product hunt.
Noah: Yeah, for certain. I imply, like, I feel once more, prefer it looks as if product hunts goal form of customers are different entrepreneurs, different creators. And so, yeah, potion, I really feel just like the buyer base suits that like completely. You already know, I’ve even seen over the past couple of years, prefer it appeared like. Virtually something notion associated would do a fairly good, like have a fairly good launch.
There’s only a ton of various notion form of add ons and merchandise and templates and issues that appear to do properly on product hunt. And so, yeah, I feel these, these, it was simply the, it was a very good market or group for me to form of launch to And so yeah, the, the launch on product hunt went fairly properly.
I used to be first of the day, first of the week, I feel I am attempting to recollect the numbers. I feel it was round someplace round 1500 upvotes on the product, on potion for that first product hunt launch. And in order that was undoubtedly form of the second form of inflow of development for the enterprise. Yeah, I imply like, I most likely acquired like my subsequent hundred prospects from product hunt kind of inside like the following two months of, of doing that launch.
However I used to be just a little bit strategic with, with it. Like I wished to verify. The product was good. Just like the product was prepared earlier than I did a launch. Like, like some folks will launch on product on like day one or week one in every of their product being constructed and launched. And I used to be form of, you recognize, took a form of extra conservative method of identical to ready.
I feel I waited round 5 months or so earlier than doing the launch simply to verify like, you recognize, did I’ve a product that individuals truly favored that was good that I wished to maintain doing and constructing. After which additionally it actually helped to have like an electronic mail checklist. Like I might already form of grown up an electronic mail checklist round 2000 folks simply by constructing potion you recognize, different prospects, like prospects and issues like that to the place I might form of get their assist for the product on launch as properly.
So I feel a few of these issues. Helped, helped it to do higher for that product hunt launch which then form of made it develop extra there. In order that was undoubtedly yeah, it labored out properly for potion with the product hunt stuff.
Jared: And you’ll keep generic in your reply, however simply typically talking, like what are the main points behind a product hunt launch?
Is it simply actually low cost pushed or do you need to form of bundle your product in a approach that makes it.
And the way do all of the, you recognize, cuts and issues work simply once more, so folks can form of suppose via if that could be a very good method for one thing they’re considering via.
Noah: Yeah. I imply, I feel you undoubtedly wish to do, you recognize, put your finest foot ahead and form of getting some good like pictures. I feel like even a video that these are a few of these issues that go up on the product hunt web page.
Like when you have Yeah, good pictures and video that form of get folks to wish to click on into your web page and test it out extra. These are undoubtedly some vital issues to a product hunt launch. However I imply, What undoubtedly labored for me is simply having like assist of like your group. I feel in some methods that’s virtually extra vital to have, you recognize, folks from Twitter or your prospects that actually wish to identical to form of get behind you and assist what you are doing and assist form of push your launch ahead by supporting it with upvoting and commenting and issues like that.
Like product hunt appears to form of put. Merchandise up larger in the event that they’re getting lots of feedback, lots of replies after which in fact, like upvotes. So these, these are a few of the issues that undoubtedly helped. And so you recognize, that may, that may be laborious to drag off. And so something you are able to do to form of construct form of some belief and loyalty with a bunch of individuals that may then form of assist to construct to, to assist your product launch go properly is, is I feel.
And that is the place, once more, like going again to the construct in public I feel was actually useful for this as a result of with constructing public, I am going, you recognize, I used to be attempting to be useful to different folks, share what I used to be doing, hopefully educating them some issues. And if, you recognize, in the event you’re invaluable to different folks, you give to them there, you recognize, when you ask each on occasion, like, Hey, are you able to assist me on product on it?
They’re hopefully increasingly more than prone to form of come again and assist you in that. So I feel that is form of what occurred in my case that was that labored out rather well with that. So yeah.
Jared: Can you share any particulars about how many individuals you ended up getting on board from, from the product hunt
Yeah. I imply, so it was form of estimates, like I feel round 100 new prospects from inside like the following two months after I did that product launch. And so it was, you recognize, it is laborious to say if all of them got here from product time, however you recognize, it is, it is, it is fairly clear that like that, no less than that increase.
Sort of gave even an consciousness, even like on Twitter and stuff the place finally these folks then form of got here round and tried out the product. And a few of these ended up going to paid. I do have the numbers of like, even like that day, like variety of web page views, variety of prospects that signed up after which people who went to paid, however I do not bear in mind the specifics of, of just like the day of numbers, however they’re, they’re most likely someplace on my.
Twitter feed someplace alongside. Oh, wow. I used to be again. We’ll give folks just a little,
Jared: just a little, they actually wish to know they will go, they will go digging. Individuals are good at digging. In order that’s
Noah: effective. They will go. Yeah.
Jared: So I imply, we, we, we’re not the purpose the place you, you have launched the product. You bought these preliminary, I feel you stated 75 prospects or so that you, you probably did a product hunt.
Launch one other 100 or so like the place, the place can we go from right here? As a result of we nonetheless acquired most likely what, a yr and a half of you persevering with to construct this product and get it to the purpose the place it was making, you recognize, I feel I’ve down over 6, 000 a month in MRR.
Noah: Yeah, so I imply, form of there happening, like these have been form of the 2 inflection factors that have been form of like faster, like fast wins form of issues.
However form of happening from there, it was form of identical to a sluggish, like, like lots of SAS companies. I feel it is simply, it is form of simply compounding development. Like in the event you simply get a few new prospects each month, your, your previous prospects keep round you recognize, it is simply going to slowly develop over time.
And so lots of, lots of potions life I used to be rising at round. 6% a month. And lots of potions life. I had a churn of round, properly, within the early, like the primary yr it was truly form of excessive. It was extra round like 10 to 12% churn, which is just a little bit excessive. However then later within the lifetime of the enterprise, I used to be capable of get that down to love 5%.
So lots of, yeah, lots of like, lots of, Potions lifetime of the enterprise. It was form of including to the product, including completely different options, attempting to love add completely different options to assist folks form of push folks to improve to the next worth plan to form of get make some more cash these methods. However then lots of it was like preventing churn and identical to attempting to.
To get my product to a spot the place folks would keep round just a little bit extra and get these churn numbers down. I, I acquired to some extent this was summer season of final yr the place my churn mainly acquired to the purpose the place it was, it was even with my development. And in order that was form of a tough. I used to be in that form of plateau for round six months the place the enterprise wasn’t rising as a result of the churn was simply too excessive.
And so, yeah, that was, I used to be attempting to determine what to do about that. Attempting to love make the product higher, however I form of misplaced some motivation in that interval as properly simply because like I feel whenever you, you recognize, I feel burnout is form of whenever you, you, you’re employed on one thing, you are placing all this effort into one thing and the outcomes aren’t what you are hoping for anticipating.
And in order that’s form of what occurred with me. And so then I, I form of misplaced motivation. So there was about six, six simply months there the place I wasn’t. I do know I simply wasn’t working as a lot on the enterprise as a result of I did not have that motivation like I had prior to now. And in order that was, that was one of many laborious laborious parts of the enterprise.
And form of what acquired me out of that was truly, I used to be considering to possibly promote the enterprise at that time to be like, properly, I do not know, like possibly unsure what’s not working, why, why issues aren’t going properly, possibly now’s the time simply to promote to form of go onto one thing else. And so I tried to promote the enterprise.
A yr in the past, and virtually, it virtually occurred virtually, virtually offered to any individual. After which their associate determined to drop out like on the final minute. And fortunately that was truly a very good factor as a result of form of from that, I used to be like, after that I used to be like, properly what am I going to do do now? Like I have to.
I assume I identical to have to make this develop once more. Like I do not actually have an alternative choice, like I am not going to promote it. And so I took like two months and like actually simply went laborious for 2 months, made like a model two of the product, repair some points that I feel have been inflicting folks to show with, with the product not working properly.
After which additionally I acquired some new associates to return on board at the moment. And so, yeah, from doing that form of acquired the enterprise to rising once more. And yeah, in order that, that was form of what acquired it rising to mainly once I then did truly promote. And so I used to be capable of promote for like double the value that I used to be going to promote for identical to 9 minutes, 9 months earlier.
In order that, that complete factor was undoubtedly value it, however you recognize, I needed to form of undergo some, some bumpy street to form of get via that. I’ve
Jared: some questions for you on the way you determined. Initially, to attempt to promote it, after which not promote it, after which, yeah, down the street. Let me ask a query that is just a little bit extra time delicate because it pertains to the story you simply instructed first, after which we’ll come again to that.
Like, what was it about model 2. 0 that was so influential in making the enterprise get out of that caught interval, that plateau? And, like, how did you analyze that? How did you determine that, hey, that is most likely what it must get out of this example that
Noah: it is in? Yeah, I imply… In some methods, I nonetheless do not fully know, so form of the concept was like, form of give the entire product a brand new pores and skin, form of redesign it simply make, give it like a better to make use of form of interface, and in order that was form of, it was form of like ranging from sq. one just a little bit, and I feel in that course of, hopefully fixing some problems with identical to getting folks onboarded like that was at all times one thing I used to be attempting to push for that was, I feel within the first model of the product wasn’t nice, was form of attention-grabbing.
Folks dropping off from, you recognize, signing up, creating the primary web site to then truly like including their customized area. That was the including a customized area was at all times like the toughest step within the onboarding course of. And so simply making that stuff simpler, I feel was a part of the massive a part of it. However you recognize.
a pleasant design to the product and stuff I feel helps. However yeah, I feel it was extra so a few of these onboarding flows that simply form of get folks to truly get into the product faster. I additionally added a free plan, which I had solely had like a seven day free trial. And so I feel that free plan helped rather a lot to identical to getting folks to strive it out, getting extra folks to make use of it.
So these have been a few of the issues that undoubtedly helped rather a lot with that, that model two of the product. After which even identical to some little issues like simply completely different bugs. Like one of many issues I’ve seen with the product potion is that individuals actually count on no matter they’ve a notion. They need it to look identical to that in potion.
As a result of they’re, you recognize, they’re including their content material and notion. And in order that was one of many issues I feel with the sooner model the place like. You already know, there could be little issues that simply weren’t fairly proper. And so that may possibly upset folks or confuse folks once they’re anticipating, like, their name out blocks to look precisely like what they’re in Notion.
And so fixing a few of these form of bugs undoubtedly helped as properly.
Jared: Man, that is attention-grabbing too. Yeah. That free trial. I’m wondering how a lot that impacted together with the product replace. You talked about it, however. It, it is, you recognize, whenever you promote to early adopters, particularly with the way in which you constructed, like I can think about lots of these folks watched you construct this factor so that they know whether or not or not what they’re signing up for is what they want, you recognize, however then a yr later or no matter it was, you are most likely advertising and marketing now at this level to individuals who possibly did not watch you construct this and did not see the interior workings of it.
And so I’m wondering if that trial gave them the chance to go, properly, alright, the concept is smart, let me see if it truly is what I believed it was. In order that’s that is,
Noah: that is good. Yeah. Yeah. I imply, and that could possibly be even what it’s. I have not thought of that, that you just’re saying that like, it could possibly be identical to, I used to be beginning to get to a consumer base that did not essentially know who I used to be.
So it is form of like possibly a few of my early like folks coming again was form of trigger that they had seen what I used to be doing on Twitter and form of you recognize, that possibly that made the retention larger for a few of these folks the place then, you recognize, in a while it was like discovering random folks from Google search and issues like that, that had no thought who I used to be or form of what potion was about.
Jared: I I, I, I, I am I am constructing an electronic mail checklist mainly from my Twitter viewers. Like, it isn’t very centered. However I’ve realized that I grew it pretty rapidly, I will use air quotes, after which unexpectedly it hit a plateau. And that is as a result of I feel, like, at that time, like, most people who knew me, And wished to be on the e-mail checklist had joined.
And so now it should have to return from different sources. In order that’s acquired me enthusiastic about it. Not which you can actually do a free trial on an electronic mail checklist. However I really feel like most likely hit some saturation on that preliminary launch. And I’m wondering how a lot that free trial helped push folks excessive. However anyhow.
Okay, cool. That is that is nice. So you bought again off to the races. You talked about some time again, I’ve in my notes, that you just did begin working with associates. And I am curious how that helped influence gross sales in any respect. If. If that was a giant deal, a giant driver, or not a giant driver I, I do know I’ve lengthy thought of if I have been to carry a product to market, how vital is having associates to the general success of, of that rising?
Noah: Yeah, I imply, I feel it may be undoubtedly a giant driver for lots of SaaS. You already know, trigger if you concentrate on it, like in the event you’re attempting to construct like search engine optimization, construct content material that individuals are looking to form of discover what you are promoting. In case you say, simply had 10 extra folks that have been making simply pretty much as good content material and so they’re, they’re within the search outcomes and individuals are following their content material.
You already know, you are, you are going to get extra folks discovering your product. Plus I feel simply the side of the content material not coming from you, like clearly you are going to say your merchandise create and that individuals ought to use it. However having just a few, you recognize, just a few individual that creates content material on-line, say good issues about your product, I feel undoubtedly, you recognize, will be much more invaluable to folks which can be coming and attempting to see like in the event that they suppose your product goes to be good.
So yeah, it was undoubtedly a giant form of lever for potion. And I feel the, the true factor with associates that I’ve heard rather a lot is that it is form of the, the actually simply the, the highest couple folks, high couple associates that actually usher in form of all the pieces. Trigger I, I most likely had round 100 folks signed up for the associates program, however actually the highest three folks have been actually the one ones bringing in a very good quantity of, of individuals.
You already know, lots of these hundred weren’t bringing any, you recognize, it was most likely identical to somebody that signed as much as possibly get their good friend to hitch or one thing. However yeah, like my high affiliate was continuously doing round 300 a month of income for themselves. Which is fairly cool that like, you recognize, they have been making some good income off of the enterprise too.
So yeah, discovering a few these, I assume like affiliate whales, I assume you possibly can name them like that, that may usher in folks is, is absolutely, you recognize, key I feel. And so I, I even what I did was like, I even like, like went via a H ref. You already know, and like was looking to see who, who’s rating for these completely different key phrases that I care about, you recognize, notion web site builders and issues like that, and simply reaching out to these folks and be like, Hey, such as you’re already creating content material for related stuff.
Like, might you, you recognize, might we associate collectively? Might you be an affiliate for potion? And in order that’s the place I acquired a pair folks. And so yeah, form of discovering these folks which can be already in movement, I feel to do what you are form of wanting already, I feel is, is, is, it is simply form of the simpler step there as an alternative of.
Simply getting a random creator or one thing like that. Additionally form of what helped with me with potion is like, there’s, there’s form of like these.
So you recognize, most likely have some like templates or data merchandise that they promote. And so there’s form of already this like group of creators inside, inside my area of interest that I used to be capable of form of attain out to which is certainly useful. So, you recognize, with most. I am guessing there’s one thing like that.
Like there’s most likely some creator, somebody on the market that is like creating tutorials, the right way to’s about merchandise which can be just like yours or one thing like that. So I feel, yeah, discovering these folks folks that have already got audiences, normally that is, that is the place you will discover your invaluable associates.
And with my plan, I’d break up 30% of the income with them. And so, and that is for all times. So hopefully it is like a deal that like is attractive sufficient to get folks to wish to. Join that. However yeah, in order that’s, that is form of what labored out for me and that was. That was one other half that simply helped the enterprise to develop in a while in, in just like the later, you recognize, final yr of the enterprise the place form of getting via that plateau that we have been speaking about.
I feel that is what actually helped.
Jared: That is nice. That is nice. Nice suggestions too for people who find themselves desirous to suppose via and in addition form of simply shared it rapidly and moved on, however that is a good way to seek out associates and to seek out methods to work with folks. You already know, I hadn’t thought of that. So that you additionally talked about search engine optimization.
And at one level attempting to, to, to get this to get potion to indicate up in, in search outcomes, what, what sort of issues did you do there? Was it, was it profitable? Did you have got lots of success with the search engine optimization push?
Noah: I do not know, it, it did not appear to be it was that profitable. I imply, to a point with search engine optimization, it is all, it is all form of a time recreation too.
It was identical to ready for issues to form of the modifications to form of get up to date in Google search indexing and stuff like that. So form of what I did was I’d create, I most likely acquired to the place I had round 15 weblog posts simply round like the right way to’s for notion, issues that may rank decently excessive in searches for Google.
And I had, I, I, I paid a, a guide or a contract firm to love make a pair articles mainly. So I used to be, I used to be having some folks make the articles for me. These. Most of these by no means actually acquired many hits. So that did not appear to do an excessive amount of. One other factor I attempted was I constructed form of like this free, like market of widgets.
So one other factor that individuals love to do in Notion is embed little widgets that do issues into their Notion workspace or embed these widgets onto their web site. And so I created form of these free widgets that individuals might simply use. And it was, it was form of linked to the potion web site. And in order that was a approach that I might simply form of make a free instrument for folks to present to folks, however then hopefully within the course of, they like study potion that approach.
And. That, that began to get like 3000 hits a month in order that, you recognize, it did one thing. And I, I did see just a little little bit of, of individuals trickle over from there, however it wasn’t like an enormous conversion as a result of, you recognize, a few of these folks weren’t essentially on the lookout for a web site. And so, you recognize, looking for the folks which can be truly on the lookout for what you are promoting is, is certainly key, I feel with search engine optimization on your SaaS is like hitting these key phrases the place it is like this particular person.
It is in movement the place they’re exhibiting, like, they’re form of expressing via their, their search phrases that like, they’re attempting to repair, remedy an issue that possibly you truly remedy. So these are undoubtedly the, the important thing phrases, I feel, for a SAS which can be probably the most invaluable so that you can form of hit. And so just like the widgets one, it undoubtedly acquired extra folks like seeing potion, however not an enormous conversion from folks which can be truly working, wanting, you recognize, for a web site.
So, yeah, I feel I acquired the potion web site acquired round to twenty, 000 views a month. And out of that, I am attempting to recollect simply to verify my numbers are proper. I, I’d, I feel I’d simply guess it was round possibly 5, 000 of these have been from Google, one thing like that. So yeah, it was undoubtedly beginning to work to a point, however it wasn’t like an enormous advertising and marketing development for me.
The affiliate stuff was undoubtedly.
Jared: So again to the purchase, or sorry, again to the promote or maintain query that I teased earlier. You already know, you went out to promote it when it was at a plateau that did not work out. You grew it greater than you determined to promote it. I imply, this can be a query like everyone goes via in some unspecified time in the future once they have just a little little bit of success on a venture.
Do I maintain it? If I maintain it, do I give attention to rising it extra or do I simply form of, you recognize, money stream it as they have been? Or ought to I promote it? Why ought to I promote it? Am I leaving an excessive amount of on the desk if I promote it or is it higher to take them? Ought to I promote it provided that I’ve a necessity for that cash or a approach to make investments that?
Or is it good to promote it? Simply because it is the fitting time, even when I had so many questions round this. So possibly I simply love to listen to from you, you recognize, why you selected to attempt to promote it the primary time, why you did not find yourself promoting it after which why you went on to form of promote it.
Noah: Yeah. So the, the primary time it was undoubtedly form of popping out of like a, a worst place of identical to, I do not know the right way to make this enterprise develop extra.
And I am unsure if like, I wish to spend extra time on it due to that. And so possibly I ought to simply form of promote it and transfer on. So undoubtedly not like a. A spot to return out of power. I feel to promote what you are promoting, such as you’re most likely gonna get a worst worth for it for promoting for that purpose.
However you recognize, if that is what you gotta do, like that is, that is nonetheless generally is a first rate consequence or an honest approach to, to maneuver on from what you are promoting. The second time it was extra like. Particularly with like indie hacking. So entrepreneurship bootstrapping, like it’s extra identical to, okay, what do you form of wish to do along with your time?
And so it’s undoubtedly extra of a private desire. And so for me, like I, you recognize, I used to be already beginning to dabble with completely different initiatives over the yr or so for enjoyable or on the aspect and. I might been working, you recognize, for on potion for 2 and a half years. So I used to be, I used to be form of attending to the purpose the place it is form of getting this fringe of like, I wish to like do one thing new, strive a distinct problem, possibly do one thing in a distinct market, a distinct area of interest.
And so, yeah, that was form of the primary driver from the beginning with you recognize, desirous to do one thing completely different. And so then form of coming down to love, okay, do I simply form of sit on potion and simply. like that minimal period of time that we’re speaking about, like two hours per week, identical to simply form of upkeeping it whereas I begin one thing else.
Or like, is it smarter simply to promote it now? And so I, with that query, I form of got here to love, form of understanding that like I am it is, you recognize, I may need weeks the place it is just a little little bit of time, however there’s at all times form of that. Even simply at the back of your thoughts, like, Oh, like if one thing breaks or one thing occurs, like I’ve to leap on it actually fast to form of sort things, preserve issues going, simply form of at all times like that like, okay, what if issues form of degrade over time?
After which I want to return form of come again to the enterprise if it does not continue to grow prefer it, it was. So there’s, there’s by no means, it is simply by no means fully passive. And so form of simply understanding that, that like, I will should spend a while on this. Both approach, like possibly identical to if I can get a very good worth for it, possibly it makes extra sense to form of promote it and transfer and transfer on.
So I form of simply threw the enterprise up on purchase. com with that in thoughts. Like, okay, if I get a adequate worth, then like. I’d as properly promote it now and if not, like, I, I can preserve simply form of doing what I am doing. And in order that was form of the plan and and since I discovered somebody that was, was, had an honest sufficient worth, I simply determined to promote it mainly as a result of I used to be able to form of transfer on to the following factor mainly.
Jared: I imply, you bought what appears like an awesome provide. Folks ought to notice like SaaS at all times instructions the next worth than possibly promoting a web site that is a content material website or an affiliate website or. You already know, a few of these different kinds of gross sales we discuss, however it sounds such as you’ve acquired an awesome worth. It appears like what?
4X in your yearly earnings.
Noah: Yeah, so yeah. And
Jared: so, I imply, it seems like, did you, did you have got a quantity going into it? You stated like, if I get a very good provide, like, did you have got a quantity like, Hey, if any individual makes any individual provides me this a lot I will completely promote it. Or was it extra identical to, ah, I will simply form of see what I get and form of make selections because the provides
Noah: are available in.
Yeah, I truly had a minimal quantity that I wasn’t going to go under and that quantity truly was what I acquired. So 300 Okay was mainly my quantity, which I feel is, you recognize, that form of simply present simply, I do not know the way negotiation works is like, if, if you’re keen to go under to one thing such as you may, that is most likely what you will go to in lots of circumstances, possibly simply relying on how the negotiation goes.
However like I put the enterprise up on purchase. Listed for 400k form of understanding that was just a little bit excessive. That could be laborious to get that. But additionally simply understanding that you just at all times form of come, come into the center just a little bit when negotiating. And I feel, you recognize, from suggestions I acquired from completely different potential patrons and stuff like for 400k was undoubtedly excessive on the excessive aspect.
And so I, despite the fact that 300k was my. I feel it was a fairly good worth for the enterprise and what I might constructed. And so yeah, I used to be undoubtedly actually pleased with the way it turned out.
Jared: You talked about notion a few years in the past, you have been form of on the entrance finish of it and creating. A product, a SaaS, a software program that, that piggybacked off of some, some, one thing that was doing properly and was rising off any individual else’s platform.
I am unable to assist as we form of transition to the top right here of enthusiastic about lots of what’s occurring within the AI world and seeing folks construct little bolt ons, plug ins, SaaS merchandise that incorporate AI. And I assume possibly to carry us full circle right here and to form of shut out. From a excessive stage, what ideas would you have got for folks or possibly issues to be cautious of as they have a look at concepts within the markets, they give the impression of being to construct options, possibly to resolve their very own drawback, however then additionally carry these to market.
Noah: Yeah. I imply, like first I feel beginning with like, what sort of enterprise do you wish to construct? And you recognize, you recognize, try to construct one thing actually huge otherwise you’re attempting to construct one thing extra Indies or extra one thing on the aspect. And I feel particularly in the event you’re attempting to construct one thing extra form of bootstrapped on the aspect form of like I’ve, I’ve carried out, like, I feel, You, you wish to discover an thought, discover a house that is like, not too dangerous.
Like, particularly in the event you’re, in the event you’re constructing solo, you are constructing by your self. Like there’s simply much more danger in the event you’re constructing one thing that is like fully new to the market. Like there’s by no means been an thought constructed like this that you just’re constructing earlier than. Like, lots of occasions there is a purpose for that.
Like, you recognize, possibly there isn’t any want for it. Perhaps there isn’t any demand for it. However then additionally it is like, okay, you gotta have lots of assets to construct one thing fully new. And so I might say like, in the event you’re attempting to do the extra indie hacker bootstrapper factor, I might say like discover an concept that’s like already on the market.
Like there’s already somebody like constructing one thing, a enterprise that is working. After which identical to attempt to differentiate, like how are you going to do one thing related, however then make it just a little higher in a sure approach or, or possibly slim it all the way down to a extra particular area of interest. So I feel these are a few of the methods I like to seek out concepts for like bootstrapper form of companies.
However then once more, yeah, form of such as you’re saying like, Searching for what are the possibly new alternatives, possibly new applied sciences like a I that you just’re, you are mentioning that, like, possibly, possibly you possibly can leverage these in some methods to form of do one thing just a little new. Perhaps that is the way you differentiate with an thought or an issue that is already form of on the market that individuals are attempting to resolve.
It is simply now you possibly can remedy it just a little in another way due to Some new know-how or platform that is on the market that lets you do it. Nicely, so these are yeah I undoubtedly search for these form of alternatives However then additionally simply remembering like, you recognize, you bought you bought to construct one thing which you can pull off In case you do too dangerous, then you recognize You are form of taking place a street that could possibly be actually laborious to truly make come to fruition.
Jared: what’s subsequent? What’s subsequent for you? What are you engaged on now that you’ve got not you stated you noticed a pair months in the past so what, what, what is going on on, what are you doing going ahead?
Noah: Yeah. So I, you recognize, again when you recognize, crypto form of was ripping and everybody, you recognize, everybody was speaking about internet three and NFTs.
I truly went actually deep down that rabbit gap and I, I did not come again. So I, I actually loved the crypto stuff. I actually noticed it and noticed like, okay. Yeah, there’s, there’s undoubtedly lots of points with it proper now. You already know, there’s lots of hacks, there’s lots of scams, there’s lots of issues that are not nice about it.
However I, I noticed the potential and, and noticed the form of the constructive aspect of, of the entire crypto factor. And so I form of dabbled with it even, you recognize, over a yr in the past with completely different NFT initiatives and issues like that. However mainly I made a decision like I wish to construct a venture that one I feel I can bootstrap that has optionality However then is part of crypto the place possibly it may be, you recognize Perhaps that is the following wave that I can form of surf is is the following development of the crypto wave and so I am constructing mainly a content material content material slash like information web site round Crypto that is known as belief rating.
So it is at belief rating. gg. And the concept is to mainly create a web site that indexes simply lots of completely different crypto initiatives and form of inform, provides the info and form of exhibits folks like, how a lot are you able to belief this venture? And so once more, it is like, it is, it is attempting to do one thing that is, it isn’t a totally new factor.
Like there’s, there’s web sites on the market that share data on completely different initiatives. A whole lot of them are just a little bit extra on just like the buying and selling aspect of like. You already know, how a lot this token is value, how a lot, you recognize, what, what is the historical past of, of that. And like, is that this one thing you wish to put money into for simply being profitable causes?
So this can be a little bit extra attempting to love share a few of that information, however then additionally add information and content material round what are the points of this venture that makes you wish to belief it or not belief it, and, you recognize, possibly it is a rip-off or possibly it is. One thing that would get hacked simply. And identical to serving to folks make these selections simpler once they’re evaluating in the event that they wish to become involved in several initiatives.
And so I feel it, it is undoubtedly one thing that comes from one thing I care about the place it is like, I feel this can be a huge subject within the crypto house. There’s lots of hacks, there’s lots of scams. And so attempting to assist that drawback in a roundabout way after which additionally form of, Will get my itch on identical to, I get pleasure from like testing these completely different initiatives myself.
I get pleasure from being part of studying crypto stuff. So yeah, that is, that is form of why I made a decision to form of go down this path and we’ll see the way it goes. It is, it is just a little bit completely different form of enterprise as a result of it isn’t, it isn’t a SAS, no less than from the beginning. It is extra of a. Construct a web site that will get lots of site visitors and attempt to earn cash possibly from adverts or sponsors or one thing like that So we’ll see the way it goes.
It feels just a little bit extra formidable I feel than then even potion and I feel it’d take just a little bit extra time to get off the bottom So we’ll see if I will be affected person sufficient to let that occur.
Jared: I Imply, it sounds such as you’re form of constructing in public once more, too.
Noah: So I reckon I feel I’d Yeah, yeah, I feel I may need been enthusiastic about it like I feel there was some downsides of constructing public possibly even over the past yr which have began to return out the place it is like, you recognize, such as you begin to get extra copycats and issues like that.
Like I even noticed that with potion. And like simply the concept like constructing a public does not actually work as properly, possibly on the advertising and marketing aspect, since it is so crowded however yeah, I am considering possibly I ought to do to share extra in public once more, simply because I feel even for internally myself, like, I feel it helps inspire me and simply retains me accountable to what I am doing.
So yeah, I am enthusiastic about, Sort of sharing extra in public and stuff the one factor I am enthusiastic about there’s like possibly folks do not care as a lot concerning the crypto Stuff as a lot which could possibly be true, particularly like my present viewers and falling, you recognize A whole lot of bootstrappers and indie hackers most likely do not actually care an excessive amount of concerning the crypto stuff So I will have to consider that.
However sure, I am undoubtedly contemplating it good.
Jared: Superb Nicely, man, this has been actually actually inspiring these tales of like an thought right through to a hit story Profitable sale are so enjoyable to undergo and. I imply, it is value noting you probably did all this whereas working full time, you recognize,
Noah: just like the true…
Nicely, properly, in order that’s partially true. So midway via operating Potion, I then stop my full time job to do Potion full time. So concerning the final yr of Potion, I used to be truly full time on Potion. Oh, I did not know that. Okay, properly, honest sufficient,
Jared: honest sufficient. Nicely, you began it when you have been… In some ways, that makes the story even higher since you truly acquired a product created.
As a aspect hustle that then allowed you to stop your full time job. So Proper. Yep. Anyhow, makes the story sound higher. However, both approach, actually cool story of, of success. And I, I feel it was actually inspiring. It definitely acquired my wheels spinning. Earlier than we, earlier than we go, like, the place can folks comply with together with what you are doing?
We talked about your upcoming venture, and possibly they will be capable of see that form of being, being constructed. However both approach, the place can folks
Noah: comply with together with you? Yeah, I might say Twitter might be the most effective place Noah W. Bragg and I do create some movies round what I am constructing on YouTube as properly, so I feel in the event you simply search Noah Bragg, you need to discover the YouTube channel however yeah, Trustscore is form of the brand new factor, trustscore.
gg, and so yeah, I will most likely, I will, we’ll see, I will most likely be sharing rather a lot about that on, on Twitter and YouTube in public, so. Nicely Noah, thanks so
Jared: a lot for becoming a member of us at the moment. I actually admire it. Thanks for sharing so many nice ideas and and simply your story alongside the way in which with Potion.
Congratulations once more on the success.
Noah: Thanks and thanks Jared, it was enjoyable. Speak quickly.