How Tim Stoddart Nets $250k Per Year With His Side-Hustle Directory Sites

We’ve got a particular deal with right this moment on the Area of interest Pursuits podcast.

CopyBlogger proprietor and Sober Nation founder Tim Stoddart joins us to share some superior suggestions and insights from his success in constructing a number of revenue streams on-line.

You do not need to overlook this one, as Tim’s story is certain to encourage.

He realized about content material advertising and marketing and search engine optimization by studying the location Copyblogger. He then utilized these methods to his personal web site, Sober Nation – specializing in what they’d do (how they’d construction articles, and so on.) simply as a lot as what they’d say.

He initially used these methods to achieve traction by way of Fb by sharing consumer tales. However, he quickly realized that site visitors does not at all times translate to income.

So, Tim determined to transition Sober Nation to a listing mannequin to generate income, itemizing remedy services, and producing income by way of publicity.

(Don’t miss his superior tips about how you can construct worthwhile listing websites!)

This allowed him to monetize the web site in a artistic and efficient manner. And it additionally sparked the concept to start out an company to assist associated services with their advertising and marketing wants.

Tim explains how he used Sober Nation as a branding instrument to construct his company, Stodzy. And by leveraging the success of Sober Nation, Tim established his company and attracted shoppers.

He did an analogous factor after buying CopyBlogger. Once more, as a substitute of taking the normal advert and affiliate route, Tim selected to make use of Copyblogger as a lead era web site for his company, Digital Commerce.

Tim’s specialization and discovering distinctive angles within the market have been key to his success.

He additionally highlights the significance of getting a core group of trusted staff and workflow to make sure the enterprise runs easily and effectively.

He discusses his completely different income fashions, together with free media to construct his e mail checklist (for sponsorships, and so on.), front-end merchandise, and high-end providers. And by diversifying his revenue streams on this manner, Tim has created a secure and sustainable enterprise mannequin.

Hope you take pleasure in and take notes!

Watch The Interview

Matters Tim Stoddart Covers

• How he obtained began creating on-line content material
• Moving into search engine optimization and lead era
• Discovering Copyblogger
• How he began Sober Nation
• Creating viral content material within the outdated Fb days
• Copying different creators
• Trial and error
• Significance of technical search engine optimization
• Listing Websites
• Suggestions for monetizing content material
• Racing to the highest
• Niching down websites for natural success
• Significance of URL construction for listing websites
• Changing into a lead aggregator
• drive natural site visitors to listing websites
• Significance of constructing a long-term crew
• Excessive-end providers
• His enterprise funnel
• And a complete lot extra…

Hyperlinks & Assets

transcription

Jared: ​All proper. Welcome again to the area of interest pursuits podcast. My title is Jared Bauman. Right now we’re joined by Tim Stoddart. Tim, welcome. 

Tim: Thanks man. Glad to be right here. 

Jared: That is going to be a enjoyable one. I imply, you’ve got obtained your palms in a few completely different actually cool issues. Uh, I, I am curious to see how we’ll take this directionally as a result of there’s a lot we might speak about.

Um, you’re with copyblogger. com, uh, a reputation I am certain lots of people have heard of. You have additionally began a really profitable web site referred to as sober nation. com and you then run an company. So, um, man, welcome to the podcast and thanks a lot for becoming a member of. 

Tim: Yeah, I am, I am actually thrilled. Um, yeah, these are all of my tasks and I am, I am, I am an open e book.

So any manner that I could be of service to your listeners, I am, I am wanting ahead to it. I 

Jared: really feel like I ought to begin by asking the way you managed to do all of it, however perhaps we’ll get to that a bit of bit later. Um, give us some, some again, like we might like to start out the podcast if we are able to, by simply studying a bit of about you, perhaps catch us as much as perhaps the final couple of years or the place you began a whole lot of these tasks you are engaged on now.

Something you assume is, um, is related. I 

Tim: assume the place I began is an effective story. Um, as a result of folks hear sober nation and it isn’t the standard sort of media firm that you just hear quite a bit on Twitter. Uh, so how did I get entangled in such a wierd business? Effectively, I, I, I obtained sober. I have been sober for a bit of bit greater than 13 years.

And mainly what occurred is, I imply, my life was. I imply, it wasn’t like horrible. I am not making an attempt to make it dramatic, however I used to be simply at all times in bother. I used to be having a extremely, actually arduous time. To illustrate that. And so I had a cousin who lived in South Florida. I am, I am born and raised in Philadelphia. And, uh, this cousin of mine was additionally getting sober.

He was sober like two and a half years, I believe. And so I simply crashed on his sofa. I made it about six months, you realize, making an attempt to determine what I needed to do. With not simply my life, however like. Like I used to be, I used to be a degenerate, you realize, so I did not actually have a whole lot of path and I used to be at all times a author.

My mother was a author. She wrote poetry quite a bit. And, um, I’ve, I’ve had a behavior of simply bringing a pocket book with me in all places. I’m going a whole lot of instances after I do podcasts, I discussed the aspect of my workplace. I obtained stacks and stacks of notebooks. I journal each morning I’ve been for my total life. And, uh, you realize, so it was one thing that I simply at all times did.

I used to be given a. Membership to success journal, which truly, yeah, 10 years in the past. Effectively, it was 12 and a half years in the past at this level used to come back with CDs in it, which blows my thoughts that like youngsters today do not even learn about CDs. I assume I truly am getting outdated, you realize, however, uh, this one specific CD had an interview with this man named Seth Godin, and I do not know who this man was, however for no matter motive, I put it in, in my CD participant.

It was a laptop computer that I purchased at a pawn store, and I do not actually keep in mind the interview. Um, I keep in mind being actually into it. And on the finish of the interview, they requested that sort of typical query, like, what would you say to someone who desires to get began? And he mentioned, begin a weblog, do not inform anyone about it and write in it each day.

And there was simply one thing about that. Effectively, I used to be like, yeah, I do not know why I ought to do this, however I am going to try this. And so I began up a weblog spot for all of the OGE content material entrepreneurs like myself. And I simply wrote in it each day and there was no path. There was no nothing. Like I’d write essentially the most random stuff, you realize, how you can make a very good peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

I keep in mind I wrote a narrative about my canine. I had a canine that had traveled throughout the nation with me. And, you realize, I wrote about my canine quite a bit, mainly, and residing in Florida. Trigger I by no means actually. Been out of Philly earlier than. And, uh, so no matter. After which ultimately I used to be writing about sobriety and, you realize, getting sober and the way bizarre it was and all of the loopy ideas I used to be having and randomly folks began commenting on this weblog as a result of they had been like, yeah, I really feel the identical manner.

Like I can not get my life collectively. What ought to I do? And, you realize, you bought to recollect, I did not inform anyone about this. That is a part of the deal. And that is how I found search engine optimization. That is how I figured it was, it was happenstance actually the place. If I am not telling anyone about this, how the hell are they discovering the weblog?

And so, you realize, lengthy story brief, that is, that is Sober Nation. That is, that is the start of it. Um, ultimately I obtained higher at s e o. , ultimately I, I realized about lead era and I realized that, effectively, truly what occurred is I found copy blogger.com and Copy Blogger was this new thought the place, Again then, if you happen to had an internet site, you had been monetizing by way of advertisements, mainly.

It is identical to what you probably did. There wasn’t a complete lot of sophistication. And this man Brian Clark had this concept that like, no, actually what you must do is not any advertisements. It’s best to use your content material to change into an authority in one thing. It’s best to write to construct an viewers, which is widespread, widespread data now.

However, you realize, 12 years in the past, this was nonetheless a fairly new thought. And so I simply went with it. I mentioned, Hey, perhaps I could be an authority in sobriety. After which the timing was additionally good. Clearly, you realize, folks have adopted the final 10 years. Opiates actually took over the nation. And so there was an enormous, I imply, let’s simply name it a requirement for remedy providers.

Lots of people had been battling the identical factor that I used to be battling. And so I used to be constructing this large viewers with folks and so they had been on the lookout for assist. And randomly remedy facilities and behavioral well being care facilities began. Contacting me and being like, man, how are you doing this? How are you getting these those that like sort of want our providers?

And I used to be identical to, I do not know. I am simply writing shit. I am simply expressing myself. I am constructing a group. And, um, and it simply occurred. Like I labored actually, actually arduous on it. However the timing of it was good as effectively. And, and timing I believe is absolutely vital. Um, my honesty, I believe was actually vital as a result of on the time remedy and habit was far more stigmatized than it’s now, like these days, everyone is aware of someone, proper?

However I used to be referred to as a junkie on a regular basis and also you simply, it simply wasn’t one thing that you would do and be, be cool. Proper. And I, uh, I simply, I went with it. And in order that’s how sober nation began. And I have been engaged on it ever for the reason that web site is 12 years outdated. It is, I imply, it is nonetheless thriving all of, all of those years later.

It is, it is in all probability the undertaking that I am most happy with. I do not spend as a lot time on it as I used to, nevertheless it’s, it is nonetheless an enormous a part of my life. What had been 

Jared: the, what had been the preliminary articles or matters or, like, was there, what, what caught hearth at first? What, had been you capable of determine sure issues that actually caught on?

Um, as a result of lots of people are, you realize, actually battle to get an internet site off the bottom. And so they go about it from a really search engine optimization standpoint from the outset. However you went about it from the other. You simply began writing about what was in your thoughts and sharing ideas about issues. Like, what caught hearth that…

Allowed you to show the nook and begin eager about it from an search engine optimization standpoint. 

Tim: Positive. Issues caught hearth. One was Fb. So this was pre the doom and gloom days of Fb again when Fb was truly enjoyable and funky and so they did not break all the things with algorithms. So, you realize, I am preaching to the choir now as a result of Fb continues to be free.

And I at all times snort when folks complain about adjustments to social media, like, Oh my God, how might you do that to me? It is like, you do not personal the location. They will do no matter they need. Nonetheless, what occurred to me was that. Right now, the attain on Fb pages was far more than it’s now. Now when you have a web page, it is like one to 2% of the individuals who observe your web page, see your stuff.

However again then it was like, I do not even know the way a lot, perhaps 50%. It was quite a bit. And uh, after I began going, folks would ship me these footage. Of their sobriety dates. And I referred to as them sober tales. And so I’d get footage from those that I’d simply submit them on Fb and say like, Hey, Jane has been sober for 3 years, like want her a cheerful anniversary.

And it might simply do like utterly go viral in a manner that I’ve, I’ve by no means been capable of replicate sense. And once more, that wasn’t essentially one thing that I deliberate. I used to be simply, I used to be, I used to be simply letting different folks converse by way of the location. Actually? I used to be simply letting. I figured that everyone desires. To really feel cool for a second, proper?

Appreciated. And I simply, I used it as a platform to inform different folks’s tales. So that actually, actually helped. Nevertheless, that did not actually compound the expansion of the location as a result of even right this moment, the half lifetime of social media content material, it is simply so brief that when folks construct their total manufacturers on social media, I discover it very harmful as a result of who is aware of?

It is, it is simply on a knife’s edge. And so the true progress was. Once more was copy blogger. And I inform this story fairly like, uh, actually about how unoriginal it was, however the founding father of copy blogger was a man named Brian Clark, who I simply actually regarded as much as. And anytime an article is revealed on copyblogger, I’d take the article.

I imply, I did not plagiarize as a result of they’re two completely completely different matters. , like how do you’re taking an article about content material advertising and marketing and translate it into an article about sobriety? However I stole, you realize, like nice artists steal. And so if there was a… I imply, I do not know. It is arduous to search out an instance.

I am going to simply use one thing off the highest of my head. If it was like one thing the place a duplicate blogger would write an article, like 5 methods to know if you happen to’re meant to be a author, you realize, I do not know. It is simply, it is a dangerous instance, nevertheless it’s the very first thing I considered. Yeah, I’d. Yeah. I am simply operating with it.

Yeah. I’d simply take that very same precise factor after which do like 5 methods to know if you happen to’re meant to be in restoration. And. I’d take the formatting like precisely I’d be taught the place to place the headers and I’d be taught the place to place the bullet factors and I’d see, Oh, why are they placing a block quote there?

And I began to know that individuals learn in a different way on the Web than they do like a novel and so they scan and you must use these headers and these web page breaks and these sample interrupts to cease them of their tracks and to seize their consideration. After which ultimately I realized about e mail advertising and marketing and I realized that I can construct a e-newsletter from it after which I found out e mail.

use e mail to promote merchandise. So sober nation even have merchandise. It was a lead era web site. Um, however nonetheless, I’d take the identical ideas and determine, okay, like I can create automations, I can put a CTA right here and I can begin measuring this stuff. And so the model progress, let’s name it.

Got here very a lot from Fb and I can not take credit score for that. I used to be simply telling different folks’s tales for them, however by way of the technical advertising and marketing, uh, what is the phrase? Ackerman Ackerman that I obtained from it. I’d identical to, I’d simply. See what copyblogger did after which like I’d simply do precisely that in essentially the most rip off manner I probably might and that was my technique and actually, I am like nonetheless doing it until this present day.

They are saying 

Jared: it is the best type of flattery, you realize, so I believe it is uh, I believe there’s one thing to that. I believe that individuals listening can in all probability take. I imply, um, it is uh, it is fascinating if you actually deep dive. Whether or not it is firms or those that have spent a ton of time in that particular space.

, I imply, Copyblogger was identified for masterfully, masterfully educating precisely how you can create and construction content material in a manner that was readable, digestible, and that obtained folks to interact. So, uh, I believe it is, it is actually, it is actually good tip there. Let me ask you if you happen to might, like, if something you are prepared or capable of share about the place the location is at now.

Perhaps we are able to use that to unpack among the methods that you just use, like by way of whether or not it is site visitors or, or, or income, or, or by way of how you’ve got structured the location to, uh, you realize, you speak about e mail being an enormous deal, like, simply give us an thought of the place the location is at proper now. The positioning 

Tim: does nice.

Um, it by no means became just like the multi gazillion greenback enterprise that I’d dream about at night time. , so I personally make in all probability. Like 250 grand a yr from it after taxes, however what the location, so the actual worth of sober nation and it is a thriving enterprise and 250 grand is, is some huge cash and I am very grateful for it.

I am not like minimizing that in any respect, however the actual worth from it was that. The entire classes that I’ve realized by way of what to do and what to not do and all of the experiments, it is sort of a type of issues, because it at all times is, the place if I do know what I do know now, and I had been in a position to return 10 years, like the location could be an enormous, large monster as a result of I by no means would have made the entire errors that I made and simply gone proper Proper for the, for, for the great things, proper?

Like proper for the meat of it. I attempted so many issues and all of it failed mainly. Um, however I realized technical search engine optimization, which is completely different from running a blog, which is completely different from telling tales. And I realized technical search engine optimization by way of the listing that we constructed. So primarily the enterprise of sober nation is itemizing remedy services.

That want to get their providers in entrance of individuals that could be battling substance abuse or substance use dysfunction. And, uh, these services wish to align their providers with folks which are on the lookout for their providers, identical to another enterprise would. And so the, the way in which it monetizes much more technical, so I do know it is a bit of bit nuanced, nevertheless it’s like an vital lesson for folks that could be beginning out to get, as a result of site visitors doesn’t imply cash.

And this is sort of a large, large, large lesson the place I used to have the ability to write these posts about like an inventory submit or one thing. And I’d submit it on Fb and I’d simply take a look at the analytics, the stay analytics and see like, there’s 3000 folks proper now studying this web site. And I posted it 10 minutes in the past, however I would at all times really feel a bit of unusual about it as a result of nothing occurred, proper?

Like nothing occurred from it. I assume I might have put advertisements on the location and change into just like the Huffington submit of restoration, however I, I do not know. I did not need to do this as a result of the concept of. Of copy blogger and content material advertising and marketing and promoting your individual services had been so ingrained in me that I simply felt like I used to be dishonest.

And, uh, and so understanding the mannequin, understanding that there is a distinction between site visitors and serving my buyer was an enormous lesson for me. And it was a tough one for me to be taught. Actually. It took me a very long time to essentially simply put the items collectively. Whereas typically we’ve got this dream of getting this, this imaginative and prescient the place I can simply categorical myself creatively.

And everyone desires to try this, however that is not going that can assist you pay your payments. Perhaps it should. It is uncertain that it’s going to, like, you would possibly simply discover an avenue the place it really works. And if that is you, then superior. I am pleased for you. Uh, that was not my expertise. And so. , the, the, the magic of sober nation in a whole lot of methods, is not the precise income that it generates.

It was simply these arduous fall on my face classes that really made, that made me a greater entrepreneur to execute and sort out the opposite stuff that I’ve began. I am glad 

Jared: you talked about the listing on the location, as a result of as I used to be… Getting ready for the interview right this moment, I used to be, I used to be, I, I, I, I bumped into that and it looks like a extremely good method to take what you are doing.

Lots of people listening are going to be perhaps extra on the content material creation aspect of issues the place they create content material, however precisely what you talked about site visitors turns into the modicum of success. However then what will we do with that apart from perhaps placing advertisements on it? The place does it go? How, when did you be taught that your content material that you just had been writing, um, the fashion of content material you had been speaking about in the beginning, when did you learn to transition that into one thing that may very well be monetized so that you just weren’t simply getting a whole lot of web page views?

And perhaps, you realize, if you happen to might share some suggestions with people who find themselves in all probability perhaps battling the identical factor. 

Tim: When did I be taught it? I, I can not recall a specific second when it clicked for me on Sober Nation itself, however this may tie into Stodzy a bit of bit. Generally after I speak about issues, it looks like there’s 1,000,000 items, however I promise they’re truly like rather more related than it appears.

And it is, it isn’t as, as loopy because it appears, however sober nation. Was virtually like a lead era for my shoppers, but in addition for myself, as a result of it is one of many different unsung values of getting a media web site is folks simply know you, they learn about you for a specific factor. And so phrase was getting out about me.

Like, Hey, this man has actually cracked this code on this, on this business. And so by way of the those that had been contacting me, I’d say, yeah, certain. You’ll be able to promote on my web site, however you do not have an internet site. Like you do not have something. I do not even know what you need me to do for you. And so I assumed, huh, why do not I simply create a service enterprise that serves these These services, these behavioral well being care services, as a result of I will get into the weeds right here a bit of bit, however most remedy services and even hospitals and something, they’re all run by clinicians and clinicians are lecturers and so they all suck at advertising and marketing.

And I am not saying that to insult them. Like they’re simply, they suck at advertising and marketing the identical manner I’d suck at writing like a 30 web page analysis paper. This isn’t what they do. And so, and so, okay, I am, I am actually attending to the purpose. As soon as we began this company, I used to be doing what a whole lot of companies do, the place you attempt to get site visitors and also you attempt to get social media shares and Hey, take a look at all of those likes that we obtained in your facility this month, like actually cool.

And the response I at all times obtained was nice, however my telephone’s not ringing. And that was arduous, man, as a result of. I’ve had this dialog a couple of instances with folks the place it isn’t only a realization. It is like an actual taking a look at your self within the mirror second the place you simply should face your self and you need to face the reality the place companies specifically, however all companies, those that succeed are those that really are courageous sufficient to measure their success in opposition to the metric that their shoppers give a shit about, as a result of a whole lot of instances you simply say, Hey, I will do all of these items and it’ll be so cool.

And you realize, like I mentioned, take a look at all these retweets I obtained, however who cares? Proper? The telephone wasn’t ringing for for my shoppers, and each time I get an e mail, I get so anxious. And by the way in which, this was years and years in the past. That is in all probability like 2. 5 years into it. So like I used to be simply I used to be a newbie. I used to be figuring it out.

, I wasn’t wasn’t on the level the place we at the moment are. Um, and so I, I encourage anyone who’s simply figuring it out to be taught this lesson quick. And we simply, we simply had a second the place I had a small crew and it is nonetheless the identical crew that I’ve now. And like, I really like these guys. They’re my brothers and sisters.

And we, we simply checked out one another and be like, no person provides a shit. No one cares about what we’re speaking about. All they care about is telephone calls. So are we going to be like everyone else that is continually biking by way of shoppers and making an attempt to persuade those that they’ve this new, cool, artistic Snapchat filter, or I do not know, insert what’s cool right this moment, like Tik TOK factor.

Or are we going to be the shopper that simply figures, are we going to be the company, excuse me, that simply figures out how you can generate outcomes for our shoppers and measures our personal success in opposition to that. And that was the second when not simply me as an individual and like as an entrepreneur, however the success completely took off as a result of it is a arduous factor to do.

Prefer it’s arduous to take a look at one thing that you just care quite a bit about and be like, this is not that good. , like what I am doing is not that good. And you’ll at all times discover methods to make the argument why, yeah, however take a look at what we’re doing over right here. And like, it is nonetheless price this a lot cash. Any person ought to pay for it, however.

Actually, they should not, they need to hearth you and they need to discover the one that’s having that tough dialog with themselves and is definitely producing that KPI that they pay for. And, uh, so I by no means had that second. Such as you mentioned, with sober nation specifically, that second got here by way of Stasi and actually it got here by way of the anxiousness that I’d really feel when shoppers would ship me emails.

About like, Hey, what is going on on right here? Like, when’s this going to start out working? When am I going to get the outcomes that I am paying this cash for? After which it took me one other couple of months to construct up the braveness to really, you realize, like do the rattling factor and, and, and acknowledge it. However I do not know precisely when that was.

We had been all nonetheless in Florida collectively. It was within the workplace. So, I imply, seven years in the past, in all probability 2016, one thing like that. Um, however I keep in mind the second. Very effectively 

Jared: for almost all of, uh, like if you happen to needed to bucket sober nations sort of income, is it from these listings and from these advert placements that firms get to have, or is it from different forms of site visitors?

Tim: No, it is, it is, it is solely about publicity. That is a, I might, you realize, that is, it is one in all this stuff the place you need to keep centered on one thing. And I really like the location. , sooner or later I am, I nonetheless hope I can eliminate all the things and simply work on sober nation. However as of proper now, it is, it is singularly centered on the listing.

And, uh, and I am, I am completely nice with that. Like that is in a whole lot of methods. I additionally take into consideration why would I modify something as a result of everyone’s pleased and like, why would I make life more durable for myself? However I, I’ve a extremely dangerous behavior of like fixing issues after which discovering new issues to place into my life for like no motive in any respect.

It sounds 

Jared: such as you’re studying. It sounds such as you’re studying. I might take a web page out of that playbook. The, um, I imply, I’d say from afar, you’re clearly like, you are sort of a, a little bit of a masterclass in specialization. Um, like you’ve got an internet site that did rather well since you honed in on a sure subject and also you grew that viewers and you then began including items to that puzzle that solved their issues, which had been listings and directories for, you realize, for, for rehab services.

And you then began fixing these folks’s issues by opening an company that might assist them with their advertising and marketing. As a result of for most individuals, in all probability, or for at the very least a whole lot of these rehab locations, only a itemizing in your listing may not be sufficient to drive site visitors. I believe, I am going to converse for myself after I say that perhaps lots of people listening have not specialised that a lot, or the place they’ve seen success with their Web site with their model with their enterprise.

They have not sort of doubled down over and over. Um, how did, like, how do you search for that in what you are doing and the way did you, and I am making an attempt to unpack right here, like directories, that is in all probability one thing that is obtained lots of people’s minds going that they have not even considered, um, truly providing providers to the shoppers that their web site is attracting might be one thing that individuals have not considered, or at the very least lots of people listening.

How did you retain discovering this? And once more, any suggestions for how you can, how you can preserve diving down that highway? 

Tim: I search for them for certain. Uh, there was, uh, on my podcast, the man, um, Oh my God, I am completely forgetting his title. I simply talked to him like two days in the past. This at all times occurs after I’m stay, uh, exploding, exploding concepts that CEO, he had a extremely good line in regards to the angle when he is, he seems at one thing like, is there one thing completely different that I can convey to {the marketplace}?

And for me, it is probably not, uh, Eric, Eric is his title. Jesus. Thank God. I used to be getting actually nervous. I used to be by no means going to keep in mind that. And, and I believe that is so worthwhile as a result of everyone can do the common factor. And I believe what folks miss is that your angle does not should be large in any respect. When you have a thousand folks which are following you for a really, very specific factor, you’ll be able to completely construct a enterprise if that is what you need to do or at the very least make a residing.

You’ll be able to present for your self with a thousand followers. Granted, it is in an business that has motivated consumers, however, um, however the, the reply to your query, I am brainstorming this a bit of bit is that I search for them, I do not do something that’s, is generic once more. That is one other Seth Godin factor that I preserve prime of thoughts actual fast.

The place you’ll be able to’t Amazon, Amazon, you’ll be able to’t like out commoditize the massive commodities mainly of the world as a result of that is a race to the underside. And being a race to the underside, typically that is a very good race to be in. Like if you happen to win the race of the underside and also you get to be essentially the most inexpensive, most commoditized widget firm on the earth, that is actually, actually nice.

More than likely you’ll are available in second place or third place or fifth place or tenth place, and that is absolutely the worst place to be as a result of like, you are not the most affordable, although you are making an attempt to be the most affordable, you are not the quickest, although you are not making an attempt to be the quickest. And so I at all times race to the highest.

Something I am doing, I, I am very, very meticulous about discovering a method to race to the highest. And so you’ll be able to see that, uh, you talked about directories and, you realize, we, we do not have to speak about directories, I am going to sort of trace on them. Oh, I wanna , however sation, in order that’s like subsequent three directories 

Jared: are the perfect I wanna hear about 

Tim: directories.

They’re, they’re the perfect. Significantly. Um, so Sopr Nation was truly the primary listing that. And I say, we deliberately, uh, if you happen to go to restoration, native. org, there’s truly 4 of them that we constructed. So getting a bit of technical with search engine optimization sober nation is like the most important media web site, however by way of the listing, it is search engine optimization for drug rehab key phrases.

Uh, there’s detox native, which is search engine optimization for drug detox key phrases. There’s your first step. Which is search engine optimization for habit remedy key phrases, versus drug rehab key phrases. Google today mainly sees these phrases as like the identical precise factor. However each time Google tells me about like semantics and hummingbird, I am, I am, I am at all times skeptical as a result of anytime I do an experiment like this, the place I simply create mirrors of themselves and separate the key phrases very particularly, they rank for various issues.

And so. I nonetheless am on the aspect of the argument that like, yeah, Google’s fairly good, however be particular along with your key phrase and inform Google precisely what this web site is about and it is, it is paid off for me. After which, um, medically assisted. com goes after. Uh, mainly like suboxone clinics or, uh, Vivitrol clinics.

So like folks can take pictures today to make it in order that they do not need to drink. Uh, after which we’re truly constructing one other one about psychological well being services. There’s, there’s an enormous psychological well being downside happening within the nation. And so we’re constructing one other one. After which after that, we’ll in all probability do one thing within the consuming dysfunction house.

Uh, I’ve me not personally, however consuming issues have affected those that I really like very, very a lot. And it is, it is, it is brutal, man. It is one thing that I am like actually obsessed with. So we’ve got all of these directories going, however look, we constructed directories for shifting firms. Um, I’ve nonetheless constructing a listing for stem cell clinics.

Uh, that is one thing that I am like actually, actually obsessed with. The issue with that’s simply the FDA in America is quite a bit stricter with stem cell clinics than they’re in locations like Panama and stuff. So each time I, each time I, I, I get it going. I’ve to e book a take care of someone in like Panama or Germany who can truly purchase the telephone calls or, or purchase the listings.

And it is simply not there but, you realize, so there’s, there’s a few roadblocks on that. I imply, shit, go to your boulder. com. That is an area enterprise listing web site that I constructed for Boulder, Colorado. Um, choose something, any metropolis, any business that there is a man, his title is, um, Chris one thing he, he even simply made a course referred to as, uh, Profitable directories or one thing.

He goes about them on promoting characteristic listings on a listing. And that is positively a manner you are able to do it. My strategy has truly been the other. My strategy has been a free listing. Get as a lot content material and as many pages as you’ll be able to. And every a type of pages is search engine optimization for a sure key key phrase and like a sure location.

So cities, townships, no matter, uh, after which use that site visitors. To promote one thing. So you’ll be able to both promote tickets to occasions. If it is a native listing, like your boulder is, uh, typically the listing, even simply. Creates an e mail checklist, which is absolutely what your boulder does with a listing itself is simply the entire site visitors, nevertheless it’s such hyperlocal particular site visitors that individuals join the e-newsletter.

After which, you realize, I promote advertisements in opposition to the e-newsletter. So yeah, for me, I do know I am getting sort of dorky proper now, however I actually love directories and I really like the technical facets of them for me. Directories have been, I imply, simply. And no person does them as a result of they don’t seem to be attractive, you realize, as a result of they do not look cool on Twitter.

And I do not know, this is sort of a little aspect rant a bit, however there’s so many instances the place I need to take folks and simply slap them and be like, cease, like construct a enterprise that makes cash. Cease chasing this bizarre factor. Like you do not have to be Gary V. Like, I do not know why you’d even need to be Elon.

Do not do this. Simply generate profits and stay a life, you realize, and like be, be content material and profitable, however. I do not know. What do I do know? I am simply constructing these boring ass directories that every one make a ton of cash. I 

Jared: wish to know extra about these extremely boring companies you’ve got that generate profits. To illustrate that I’ve an internet site that has site visitors and I’ve ditched down to a point.

So I’ve an viewers that. That comes, that’s about one thing particular. Um, I believe all of us in all probability know the excessive ranges of what it takes to make a listing and you realize, there’s plugins that may assist, there’s technical search engine optimization you need to put into place, however what are the issues that most individuals miss in the case of beginning a listing?

Like I am considering I’ve an internet site in my thoughts proper now that may be, I really feel like excellent for a listing, however I really feel like if I went to go set one up, there’s in all probability one or two issues I’d miss 

Tim: alongside the way in which. Yeah. Uh, URL construction. Might be the most important one. And it is a robust nut to crack as a result of there’s some actually good listing.

Plugins, even platforms on the market. Uh, one in all them, the one which I’ve used essentially the most to start out directories, it is, it is, it is actually simply referred to as enterprise listing plugin. That is what it is referred to as enterprise listing plugin. However, uh, however the URL construction on it sucks the place for instance I am constructing a location primarily based listing.

What it’ll do is url. com slash location. In order that’s the primary, uh, variable that the plugin itself goes to place in, slash the dynamic variable that I inform it to place in. So let’s simply say it is Boulder, you realize, for instance I do a nationwide listing. And so one of many classes is the states, proper?

So the URL goes to be url. com slash location slash Denver. That is the, that is the one which I put in there. After which slash. That is the, once more, that is the one which the listing places in there slash title of the itemizing. So title of the enterprise. So your 4, your 4 variables deep the place actually what it ought to say.

Is url. com slash Denver. The one which I manually put in there slash title of the enterprise, simply the 2, the excessive stage class, after which the title of the itemizing. And it has been an enormous downside with, uh, enterprise listing plugin, as a result of it is the best to make use of is the best to arrange, nevertheless it’s arduous to search engine optimization it as a result of the key phrases in, within the slugs are, are so deep that I am not even certain they ever get registered.

And so the very first thing that I do not even need to say folks miss, like the primary, uh, wind in opposition to your gross sales, type of converse, is that if you happen to actually, actually need to do it, actually do it proper. The primary time you must. Make each web page, assuming you are utilizing WordPress, which I take advantage of, simply make the entire thing static on pages, you realize, so let’s use the identical instance, make a web page that’s for Denver after which on that web page checklist The entire subcategories, no matter they will be.

And you’ll even simply put bullet factors and hyperlinks. Like ultimately you need to get extra refined, however if you happen to’re doing this to appease Google, you’ll be able to simply add all of the listings as bullet factors and hyperlinks. After which these hyperlinks will go on to the precise listings. And so, yeah, you’ve got like not an excellent wanting, not that useful of a listing, however when you get the URL construction and the web page construction found out You’ll be able to return and construct the web page templates.

So then the state pages, proper? These web page templates, you can also make it in order that they don’t seem to be simply hyperlinks on a web page. , perhaps you, you create like playing cards for them so that you’ve got completely different classes inside that metropolis, you realize, like contractors or electricians or no matter. Um, after which design it and make it extra consumer pleasant.

However you are, you are higher off getting the URL construction proper first. Okay. After which messing round with the design, then you’re messing round with the design after which making an attempt to repair the URL construction afterwards, as a result of that is for for technical SEOs. that that is like unattainable. It is an unattainable factor to do.

In the event you get the URL construction, the URL construction proper to start with, you are able to do something. But when it isn’t proper, you then’re simply at all times making an attempt to you are at all times making an attempt to I do not know what an analogy, like, like repair holes within the wall if you’re higher off simply ripping the home down and constructing a brand new one.

Jared: Yeah, you are continually plugging holes within the boat relatively than making an attempt to only, you realize, you gotta begin with a 

Tim: new gap. 

Jared: Um, I imply, are you simply doing this manually now, or is there a plugin that is extra strong to deal with it? 

Tim: Um, we do it manually. Yeah, for certain. So like I mentioned, we, I’ve a developer and he is mainly constructed his personal.

Uh, he is constructed a few issues. He is constructed a WordPress theme. He is constructed like this, this performance on directories that we have, uh, I do not know what it’s, copyrighted or protected. Um, so yeah, it is, it is, it is a way more refined course of now, however I nonetheless completely, completely advocate anyone who’s listened to this to start out off doing it manually and it will suck, man.

Prefer it’s, it sucks making these hyperlinks and. And making an attempt to construction this stuff completely the primary time and, and, uh, it is, it is, it is price, it is price doing. It truly is. It is actually price doing 

Jared: URL construction and categorization and group apart, what does a very good web page, a particular contractor web page or itemizing seem like, uh, on a listing that really is ready to garner site visitors from search engine optimization?

Tim: Yeah, man, I really like that. You are like asking the actual particular questions as a result of that is the stuff that I’ve simply realized the arduous manner earlier than you perceive that you need to perceive the aim of your listing is your listing promoting characteristic listings, promoting publicity to an advertiser. Or is your listing producing leads inside itself?

So one of many enterprise fashions is you’ve got this large listing. Let’s simply say we’re doing electricians in Denver, which, by the way in which, my view continues to be the most important alternative for folks simply stepping into house is to work with contractors, native companies. As a result of everyone wants an electrician and electricians do not know how you can market themselves, proper?

So plumbers, contractors, electricians, if I might begin throughout and simply have a magic crew in entrance of me that already is not optimized for what we do, that is precisely what I’d do. So after that, when you resolve. If, if you happen to’re promoting a featured itemizing for a contractor, an advertiser, you must be sure that the characteristic itemizing is price shopping for.

So that you spotlight that featured itemizing and you set that on the prime of the class, proper? To illustrate we’re doing contractors in, in Colorado. I like location primarily based listing. So then you’ve got a complete class web page for Denver. Effectively, the folks which are paying further, they must be on the prime and the itemizing itself must have a method to generate leads for the client.

So which means their itemizing must have a lead type. Their itemizing must have like an easy to see telephone quantity that when someone calls it goes to the contractor immediately, uh, you need to be certain that there is a map on it. And you’ll API into Google maps to do that in order that they will get the instructions proper from their telephone.

But when someone calls the telephone quantity on their itemizing, you continue to get credit score for it and never Google, like, so you need to observe all of these numbers, which you are able to do by way of name monitoring metrics, or you’ll be able to even do it by way of like voice or excuse me, Google voice. Um, okay. In order that’s assuming that you just’re promoting promoting.

In the event you actually, actually need to generate profits. Then you definately construct the listing totally free. You make each itemizing as, as dope as you probably can, present as a lot free worth for all of those folks as you probably can to the purpose the place they do not even know that you just’re doing it. And, and if you happen to’re gonna do it this fashion, I actually suggest not sending them an e mail as a result of I simply get these emails on a regular basis and so they at all times really feel like, okay, effectively, like, what would you like?

Actually? Like, simply make it for them. And do not inform them about it and make it nearly as good as you probably can. After which ship all it. So put a telephone quantity on the prime of the web site and that telephone quantity both involves you or it involves a name heart. And now you are a lead collector and you are a lead aggregator.

And so actually what you are promoting is enterprise. You are, you are working with the contractors that contact you and also you’re simply routing the telephone calls to them. So there’s two phases to that. First, you are going to begin gathering the telephone calls your self. As a result of no person’s going to purchase them from you as a result of I do not even know who you’re.

And actually, you are going to give a whole lot of these telephone calls away totally free. Like I had a, a type and I’d acquire these leads after which I’d simply name among the people who find themselves closers to me and be like, Hey, I am Tim. I run this web site, uh, coloradocontractors. com. I’ve this one that wants some enterprise.

Can I ship them to you? After which, in fact, I will e mail that contractor from my e mail tackle. It says Tim at Colorado contractors dot com. They’re like, shit, I simply obtained some free enterprise. Who’s this Tim man? And you then preserve doing that for a few months. And earlier than you realize it, you’ve got the objective, the concept objective the place I am getting with.

And you’ll inform I get actually excited after I do that. I am speaking too quick. So forgive me. However the objective is to make it. So these telephone calls simply go on to the contractor themselves, after which they pay you for the telephone name. So you’ll be able to skip, you’ll be able to skip your self, proper? You are not accountable for all of that anymore.

Now, all you are accountable for is. , the, the telephone calls from Denver go to this contractor, the telephone calls from Boulder go to this contractor. You, you are able to do it. Have you ever received? You’ll be able to ship the entire state to 1 individual, no matter, however then your, your accountability is monitoring the telephone calls after which billing them, proper?

So then mainly your job simply turns into producing telephone calls and chasing cash and producing telephone calls and chasing cash. That is among the downsides of the enterprise is you are chasing cash quite a bit. But when that is my largest downside right this moment, I am, I am nice with it. So mainly the 

Jared: mannequin is promoting centered or lead gen centered and also you’re saying lead gen centered is unquestionably essentially the most worthwhile of the listing fashions.

Tim: Oh yeah, no query, nevertheless it’s the toughest. 

Jared: It is the toughest. Yeah. Um, are you additionally writing articles round these? So you bought, you realize, 25 contractors in Denver and are you writing like the highest 10 or are you doing options on every of them? And like, you realize, Uh, a contractor highlight and also you do like a characteristic within the internally hyperlink again to it, otherwise you simply sort of let the listing go as a result of all the things about that listing, simply in case in itself, does it, does it give you the results you want?

Tim: Each. There is definitely a parader precept the place irrespective of what number of articles you write, if you happen to focus solely on the listing, you will nonetheless be higher than if you happen to. Like that point that you just spend on the listing greenback for greenback goes to be greater than the stuff on the articles. I select to not do it that manner as a result of there is also that recreation with search engine optimization the place you set your whole sources on this listing after which sooner or later Google simply does not such as you anymore, you realize?

And so like you don’t have any backup plan, you don’t have any natural content material to generate site visitors a unique manner. Uh, however you nailed it. Yeah, definitely. So, you realize, prime 10 contractors in Denver. Write that article, proper? Um, how you can discover out if a contractor actually is aware of what they’re doing. After which the vital half, and that is extra copy blogger ask.

The vital half is inside that content material. Perceive the formatting, perceive the CTAs, perceive that your buyer is the contractor. So the purpose of the article, though the content material inside the article is serving the person who is not a contractor, proper? The aim of the article is to get that individual to the listing to name the contractor.

So these are the issues I used to be speaking about earlier than, the place you need to determine why you are doing what you are doing, however It is, it is like the rest. It simply takes observe and you then determine it out and it is easy. So, 

Jared: man, I really feel like we simply obtained an superior quarter-hour in listing constructing. And I am certain lots of people, if you happen to’re like me, you are eager about some undertaking you’ve got that may in all probability profit from one thing like this, if not a brand new undertaking, which is a complete different subject.

Um, however I, I do need to ask you about the way you do, um, prioritize your time. I’m taking a step away from listing particular and now wanting, as a result of you’ve got three issues happening. We have touched on two of them, we have not touched on the third but. We have touched on, on SoberNation, we have, we have touched in your, your company.

Uh, however you’ve got taken on a 3rd undertaking, which is CopyBlogger, and I simply, I am dying to listen to the way you… Uh, the way you steadiness your time and the way you, the way you choose the place to place vitality and focus in the direction of. And once more, folks hear, you are going to lean into this as a result of we sometimes all have a few tasks we’re engaged on and we’ve got a few issues that we’re making an attempt to steadiness and construction.

Tim: Simply wrote. I’ve a private e-newsletter that I write each Tuesday and I simply wrote about this this morning. So this is, I am going to. I am pleased to reply this and I am going to dive into the entire specifics, however this is the inspiration of that query. There’s this concept of a number of revenue streams and I write about a number of revenue streams on a regular basis.

I, I am like absolutely within the boat that wealth is created from a number of streams of income. It is simply, it is like simply knowledge. Virtually everyone who’s rich has various things working for them, proper? That is the objective. You bought to get stuff working for you, however do not get me improper. The overwhelming majority of my time is spent on Stodzy as a result of Stodzy is the money circulate.

That makes the remainder of the issues doable. And so I do not need anyone to ever lose sight of their cashflow mechanism. And, and like, simply to say typically which means having a job, like if someone has a job and so they’re making 150 grand a yr, like you’ve got your cashflow arrange, however I am not, I am not saying give up your job and begin a enterprise.

I am additionally not saying. Like play it protected your entire life and do not begin a enterprise. I am simply declaring the technicalities behind how you can get completely different sources of income working for you. And a very powerful factor to have is a gradual stream of money circulate. And that is why Stasi continues to be the overwhelming majority of, of my time.

However look, mainly. What we’re speaking about is similar factor I’ve already performed. Sober nation became a income stream inside itself, nevertheless it principally became a branding instrument for me to construct an company. And so after I noticed a duplicate blogger, the very first thing copy blogger. com is, is only a weblog within the outdated days, copy blogger was part of like a much bigger conglomerate.

Of internet sites and all of these web sites with the merchandise like copyblogger inside itself was by no means truly a enterprise. It was mainly simply the weblog that offered the product. So there was studio press. com, which offered WordPress themes. I believe that they had like a internet hosting enterprise as effectively, however like copyblogger as an, as an autonomous entity, wasn’t truly something aside from the attention, aside from the media and the viewers.

And so after I purchased it, I purchased it with nothing connected to it. I knew there was no enterprise. However I mentioned to myself, sober nation constructed an company for me. And copyblogger can do the identical precise factor. And so there was a man named Johnny Nassar who was much like Brian Clark. He was one of many old fashioned copyblogger guys is a man who actually regarded as much as us to hearken to his podcasts each morning after I was driving to my workplace, after I lived in, in Boca.

And, uh, I knew this man had like a boutique search engine optimization company. And so we had a few conversations and we inked a deal mainly. And in order that’s how digitalcommerce. com was constructed. That is an search engine optimization company that I am a big associate in. But when, if Stasi focuses on behavioral healthcare services, digital commerce focuses on SAS merchandise.

And membership websites, mainly enterprise SAS merchandise and enterprise digital gross sales, digital product companies. And so like, I do know I am getting a bit of bit stuttery right here, however I actually need to hammer dwelling the purpose that it is the similar factor that I’ve at all times performed. Copyblogger is simply the viewers. And I knew if I might have a service enterprise, I might shut offers.

I knew if I had a very good search engine optimization. If I had the power to promote a extremely, actually good product, a extremely good search engine optimization product in an area that I actually understood, I might do this by way of copyblogger. And in order that’s the very first thing I did. And so, effectively, I do not know if you happen to heard that horn, that was loopy. And so copyblogger actually began off as a lead gen web site for digital commerce.

And that is how we obtained our first shoppers. And that is how we, we broke 1,000,000 bucks a yr. And it was all simply utilizing copyblogger as a lead gen web site. So I did not go into it with this concept of like, Hey, I can construct like the subsequent hustle and construct the subsequent media firm. It was very dry and to the purpose and to the fundamentals.

As soon as I did that, then I used to be capable of simply put copyblogger into the identical system as all the things else, you realize? And so. So I am nothing with out my crew. If there’s one factor that I’ve performed effectively in my entrepreneurial profession, it’s like very, very deliberately gone after staff that I do know. And like, and belief.

And it is, it has been the identical group of us for the final 10 years. , there’s 5 of us mainly. And like, yeah, certain. Workers come and new folks be a part of the crew and get larger and larger and larger. Proper. However I’ve by no means fallen into that entice of, you realize, there’s somebody higher on the market. I want to rent like a greater govt.

It has been my core group of my core group of individuals the entire time. And so anytime there’s one thing else so as to add into it. Positive. Like new gamers be a part of the crew, however this, the middle of all of it’s Stasi. And the middle of all of it’s like my household, my those that, that I construct these things with. And so, yeah, it is, it is a large machine.

Do not get me improper. And there is like a whole lot of completely different names and stuff like that, nevertheless it’s, it is quite a bit smaller than you assume, simply by way of just like the analogy I’ve is folks operating across the workplace and there is, there’s. Piles of paper flying throughout, you realize, and there is like data going in all places.

It is, it is, it isn’t that there is only a small group of us and the knowledge we name it workflow. The method of labor we, we deal with workflow is mainly what it’s that we serve to folks, the method of workflow and knowledge going from one division to a different is, may be very, very systematic and calm, principally calm.

Jared: Get that impression from you. It is, it is, it sounds prefer it’s all in regards to the mannequin and you have found out the mannequin of site visitors and viewers era, which you probably did with sober nation after which translating it to a product. Clearly you’ve got a product on there, the listing, however actually one other, a unique product, which is Stodzy, the company.

And also you, you noticed that very same, uh, that very same line of considering and that very same strategy that might play out if you, if you noticed a duplicate blogger come up on the market. 

Tim: Precisely. And I used to be fortunate sufficient to, effectively, not fortunate, lucky sufficient to, to be taught from different folks. So Ethan, um, Ethan Brooks, he used to run developments and that is why I discussed the hustle.

He used to run the hustle. He simply had an actual perception. On the technicalities behind media. And he confirmed me that there is the free media, which is the e-newsletter, proper? And so I used to be capable of promote sponsorships on the copy blogger e-newsletter. After which I took that and I did the identical factor for sober nation. And so now sober nation does have a e-newsletter and we promote sponsorships on it.

So there’s the free media, which monetizes by way of sponsorships. There’s the entrance finish product. Which is like inexpensive and accessible. Uh, and so I already had that on sober nation with out essentially figuring out it. And that was the characteristic listings or the listing, you realize, it is, it is accessible. You are able to do it simply and it is inexpensive.

You are not going to essentially go like, ah, you are not going to assume an excessive amount of about it. You are simply going to purchase it. And for copy blogger, we created the copy blogger Academy, which is the membership web site. And so, you realize, the mannequin replicates there’s the free media. Effectively, there’s the site visitors first, then there’s the free media, which in my case is sort of at all times newsletters.

Then there’s the entrance finish product, which in sober nation is the immediately listings and low blogger. It is the membership web site. After which there’s the backend product, which is pricey and, and never unique. That that is the phrase. And I do not personally have a product like sometimes for membership websites.

This might be like your mastermind, you realize, this is able to be your 10, 000 mastermind or no matter. Um, I like company companies. I do know that, like I mentioned, they don’t seem to be very cool today, however. I am not the sort of man that is going to borrow cash from someone and create a SAS product that is like in all probability going to fail and go bankrupt.

And so my backend product is excessive finish providers. And so it is the identical factor for Stasi. , our minimal deal is like eight grand a month for digital commerce, it is about the identical. And so it is simply this similar replicated mannequin of site visitors, free media, entrance finish, again finish. After which the entire thing simply feeds itself over and over.

Jared: I’ve so many different issues I might ask you about, however I really feel like that is an ideal place for us to shut out. And, um, man, what an hour that flew by. I, uh, I realized a lot, Tim. Um, Hey, the place can folks observe together with you? You sort of teased a e-newsletter you ship out each Tuesday, however the place can folks meet up with what you are doing and observe alongside?

Tim: Yeah. Tim stods. com. It is a precedence for me to proceed to put in writing and to proceed to be humble and stare on the clean web page. And get pissed off about how dangerous of a author I’m, like each author does, you realize, so if you would like me and my insights, mainly, I simply share my, my story. I share what I am engaged on.

So timstodds. com, T I M S T O D Z, uh, Twitter, LinkedIn, it is all timstodds. And, um, observe alongside. I reply each e mail by the way in which. So I, anytime someone replies to my e-newsletter, I at all times reply them. It is, it is one other like precedence of mine. So if you happen to obtained any questions, you’ll be able to at all times chat. Tim, thank 

Jared: you a lot for approaching and sharing a lot.

Um, I am certain lots of people might be impressed and I am certain lots of people can have quite a bit so as to add to their to do checklist now. So respect you approaching and we’ll catch 

Tim: up with you once more quickly. All proper, Jared. Thanks, man.