Chris Koerner is a serial entrepreneur with a number of unbelievable experiences beneath his belt. From promoting Buc-ee’s merchandise on-line to partnering with John McAfee to launch a crypto firm, he describes himself as an “concepts man.”
In truth, during the last 15 years, he’s began 75 completely different companies.
However immediately he’s right here to speak about one particular side: social media.
Chris is aware of quite a bit about rising content material and viral advertising and marketing, having expanded his social media following to an unbelievable 820k throughout a number of platforms.
On this interview, he shares his framework, talks about completely different sorts of content material for various platforms, reveals his thought course of behind crafting hooks, and teaches us easy methods to get extra followers.
Watch the Full Episode
Chris reveals that began off promoting golf balls as a child, and shares a few of his most unusual companies. At present, he spends his time engaged on three tasks: content material creation, RV elements gross sales, and beginning companies with different folks.
He has a number of expertise rising his following, which he discusses, and he talks particularly about his framework. He talks in regards to the energy of quick kind movies, along with his getting on common 600k views and a whole lot of latest e-newsletter subscribers.
When he dives deeper into the ability of short-form video, he talks about going high-volume, accelerating the training curve, arising with concepts, and recording on the fly.
He talks about calls-to-action, the worth of podcast downloads vs. e-newsletter subscribers, and long-form content material.
Chris shares his ideas on followers alongside along with his electronic mail system, and talks about his findings after sending out his newsletters over the course of a number of years. He talks about the place he will get the majority of his subscribers,
Chris is an skilled at getting new followers, amassing round 10k new ones a day, and his content material will get between 50 and 130 million views per thirty days. He shares his perspective on posting content material to completely different platforms and the way he customizes his CTAs.
When requested how he decides which platform to submit to, he talks about how he approaches all completely different platforms in addition to the “best” platform to handle.
Jared asks him how he will get so many views, and he gives some nice ideas, which embody coaching your algorithm, emulating different creators you admire, studying hooks, and throwing spaghetti on the wall.
Chris admits that he didn’t take into consideration hooks initially and he shares the hook that works for him.
Lastly, he talks about whether or not or not he makes use of scripts.
Hyperlinks & Sources
Subjects Chris Koerner Talks About
- His expertise as an entrepreneur
- His completely different tasks
- An summary of his framework
- His ideas on short-form video
- Ideation
- His method to long-form content material
- His electronic mail newsletters
- Getting subscribers
- His month-to-month followers
- Utilizing completely different platforms
- Easy methods to decide a platform
- His workforce and what they do
- The trick to getting views
- Easy methods to craft a superb hook
- Scripting
Transcript
Jared: All proper. Welcome again to the area of interest pursuits podcast. My identify is Jared Bauman. And immediately we’re joined by Chris Kerner. Chris, welcome on board. Thanks for having me. I am excited to be right here. Nice to have you ever. We’re speaking about rising a following immediately. Now we might speak about a number of various things with you.
You have bought your fingers in a number of various things, quite a bit occurring. We narrowed in on this one matter as a result of we thought this was perhaps one of the best factor for our listeners to listen to. However earlier than we get into these particulars. Give us some backstory on who you’re. You bought your fingers on a number of issues. You bought a number of profitable companies you are working with.
Inform us about who you’re.
Chris: Yeah. Excessive stage. Uh, grew up in Utah and Florida. Um, I have been a serial entrepreneur my entire life. I used to promote golf balls as a child, reside throughout the road from a golf course and grew up type of poor, decrease center class ish, and so I simply type of needed to be scrappy to avoid wasting up for a yearbook or a discipline journey.
Uh, and that by no means left me. So I, I served a mission for my church from 19 to 21 in Japanese Europe. And that gave me the motivation that I by no means actually had earlier than. I got here again appreciative of America and able to simply, , take capitalism by the horns. And so I, I bought married to my highschool sweetheart.
Uh, we went to the college of Alabama collectively and I simply began beginning every kind of companies. And so. Over the past 15 years, I’ve began like about 75 companies. Um, and. It is simply an habit at this level. I simply like it.
Jared: That is I did not know you began that many. That’s a number of companies.
Um, perhaps give us a number of excessive ranges of like your favourite ones or those that you are the most happy with, or, , those you are concerned within the longest.
Chris: Yeah, I had the longest stint was, uh, an organization that remanufactured damaged iPhone screens. So we’d go to iPhone restore outlets. Purchase again their damaged screens, um, ship them to China to get new glass on them.
After which we would promote them wholesale. Uh, did that for seven years. That was a number of enjoyable. Um, and one among my companies that I personal immediately, which is type of a cool story. We resell Bucky’s merchandise. Bucky’s is a small chain of gasoline stations, very distinctive model. And we type of, we pulled a viral advertising and marketing stunt trigger they weren’t promoting on-line.
We began promoting on-line for them. Um, and now we, now we have a Shopify retailer and we do tens of 1000’s of orders a 12 months.
Jared: That is
Chris: phenomenal.
Jared: That is nice. Um, what are you concerned with immediately? Like what does your, , excessive stage enterprise appear to be at this level?
Chris: Yeah, I, I type of cut up my time into three buckets.
I’ve, um, content material. Uh, which takes a couple of third of my time. After which I put money into RV and cell house parks with some companions. I haven’t got an operational position, however I assist discover them. After which I assist elevate cash for them. After which the third factor I do is begin companies. I’ve a model referred to as co founders and we discover working companions and it is not an incubator.
It isn’t a pure holdco. It isn’t a VC. It is type of our personal factor. It is my strategy to get concepts out of my head. Uh, and. Launch them with, with companions after which maintain them endlessly.
Jared: Superior. Properly, we’re speaking immediately about, um, about rising a following and, um, , you have accomplished this, I am going to say time and again, um, however perhaps kick us off to this matter immediately, set the stage for what we’ll speak about.
We’ll get actually detailed. You have bought a rather well outlined technique for it, however give us the excessive stage. Um, and body out our dialog right here.
Chris: Okay. So I have been like doing a number of copywriting since I first began a enterprise. Um, it was by no means something intentional. I by no means took a copywriting course, however I simply love writing.
My mother’s a author. Um, and I really like sending advertising and marketing emails, whether or not it is a chilly electronic mail or a mass electronic mail. Uh, and so I began writing on Fb, like in, , late 2000s, early 2010s and on Quora. Simply answering enterprise questions there. Um, after which 2017, I began writing on Twitter, um, like lengthy kind enterprise stuff, case examine, stuff, crypto stuff.
Um, after which, uh, a few years in the past, I began writing strategically on Twitter to essentially begin to develop an viewers after which, uh, 10 months in the past, I began a podcast after which I went to love quick kind and lengthy kind video so I might promote the podcast and, after which every little thing simply type of blew up from there.
Jared: The, um, you have got a particular framework for it as a technique that you just go about. Let’s begin with that. I am going to allow you to type of share it. Trigger I believe it is actually attention-grabbing. It is clear simply from what you have already shared that there is, there’s fairly a Whether or not it is by chance or by design, there’s fairly an method you’re taking that type of systematically follows.
Um, the, the, the motion earlier than it, let’s get into the technique that you just shared within the present notes. After which we’ll, we’ll go from there into a number of the questions I’ve.
Chris: Yeah, so it began is rather like every little thing how every little thing begins for me and I am simply curious and I type of have this this poisonous trait the place I get actually interested by one thing after which actually impatient about one thing after which 15 years later, I’ve all these companies.
I simply I am unable to sit on an concept. You recognize, I simply, I, it is bodily unattainable for me. So the identical is true with content material to me. Content material is like one other enterprise. Um, and so I, I am at all times type of throwing spaghetti on the wall, simply attempting new codecs, let’s attempt quick kind, let’s attempt lengthy kind, let’s attempt any such phase, let’s attempt faceless or with my face, or let’s attempt a enterprise concept, or let’s profile an proprietor.
And I am at all times simply type of watching the info and seeing the place it goes after which leaning into what works. Um, And so the, the true turning level for me was when, as you stated, I, I lastly put a technique to all this spaghetti that I would thrown on the wall and in a quite simple manner, it is quick kind video results in lengthy kind audio written or video results in, to be decided.
Trigger I do not actually monetize but. I am not in a rush to, however I simply know that having an viewers is nice to have. So I am attempting to play the lengthy recreation. Why quick kind video first? It appears very purposeful. It’s now. Um, I would like to say that was the plan from all alongside, however I’ve like, I am an introvert honestly, and I would a lot slightly simply sit right here in my workplace all day.
By no means take calls. Simply put my head down in my Mac e-book and simply development hack stuff. Proper. And I am not. I really like simply writing, placing my ideas out to the, to the world. And I’ve at all times stated like, I might by no means do quick kind. I’ll by no means do quick kind kind like that is too cringe. I am unable to even think about myself like holding my cellphone.
I simply, I am unable to do it. Um, after which after I created the account, it was solely to advertise the podcast. It is like, all proper, I am going to use AI to auto generate clips from the podcast and I am going to add them and, and we’ll develop it. Um, and I’ve since realized that does not work very effectively. It is actually laborious to develop a podcast with simply auto generated clips.
And so I began taking authentic shorts about stuff that I write about. Like, take a look at this enterprise concept. Take a look at this enterprise concept. Take a look at this enterprise. I began, this is what I realized. It is a enterprise partnership that went unhealthy. Here is what I realized from that. Um, and that basically, actually, um, began doing effectively.
And so why quick kind it is the very best leverage. I I am going to spend 5 to 10 minutes, uh, taking like finish to finish ideating, considering type of roughly scripting, taking the video. 5 to 10 minutes. I am accomplished. I add it to my assistant. Takes her a half hour to edit and I am accomplished. And that video will get me, um, on common, my shorts get about 600, 000 views and so they deliver 50 to 500 e-newsletter subscribers from 5 minutes of labor.
Jared: How do you ideate across the subjects for brief kind video? And by the best way, I wish to, I wish to name out as a result of I believe lots of people listening are most likely extra accustomed to producing lengthy kind content material, similar to you stated you have been. And so the, the leap to quick kind, it perhaps sounds straightforward. After which whenever you roll up your sleeves, you are like, Oh my goodness, that is completely completely different than creating lengthy kind content material.
So how do you ideate round that? How have you ever discovered what works? What sort of system do you discover works effectively for this quick kind content material method?
Chris: Properly, you do not know what works till you simply, you bought to go excessive quantity. Um, that is a power and a weak spot of mine. I’ve no consideration to element.
Like simply for instance, I used to be in church final Sunday and my pal carried out a musical quantity and I wasn’t on my cellphone. I used to be simply watching. After which 10 minutes later, I went to my son and I am like, Hey, why did not, why did not he go up? I see on this system, he was speculated to go up and he is like, daddy. He went such as you have been looking at him.
And like, I used to be simply so in my head, I’ve no consideration to element and I am the other of a perfectionist. Uh, and briefly kind video that advantages me as a result of some folks overthink it. It is like, Oh, I bought to get the hook, proper? Oh, the lighting is not good. Oh. Oh. And like, I simply do not care. I simply hit publish, proper?
Whenever you try this, you speed up the training curve, proper? I can put out 5 movies in a day, spend a half hour on them collectively. And I’ve a lot information than the 5 I put out the subsequent day may do 4 instances as effectively. After which 4 instances as effectively the subsequent day after that, whereas lots of people, they simply, um, I will analysis some extra.
I bought to script this out the hook. I will do analysis on hooks. Then I will analysis on retention. I will find out about charts. I will similar to ship it. Simply get it on the market.
Jared: What are the, what, like whenever you, in the event you’re doing 5 a day, what do you, what do you, how are you arising with these concepts?
What? Is the underpinning of what you are going to make 5 movies a couple of day?
Chris: Two sources. So primary, um, my lengthy kind content material, most of it facilities round enterprise concepts. And so I am going to have recurring visitors on, and we’re each concept machines and we can’t have any script. We can’t have something. We’ll simply begin speaking and it type of begins out gradual.
After which it will get, we get going, we get going, we get excited. We give you all these concepts and that is like 10 shorts price of content material proper there that I am simply, and as soon as once more, I am not clipping these with AI. Then I’ll pull out my cellphone 10 instances and make 10 shorts speaking about what I already talked about that time again to that podcast.
Proper? In order that’s one bucket. The second bucket is Coming from the identical platforms the place I am posting these, I am going to go on Instagram and I’ll practice the algorithm to my liking. So that you and I, any human, now we have completely different tastes. I like extremely marathons. I like Theo Vaughn. I like cooking pizza in my outside oven.
And I like enterprise after I’m logged in on this Instagram account. If Theo von pops up, I will swipe away as quick as I can. Proper. If a pizza oven video comes up, Nope, not liking it. Not watching it. I am simply telling the algorithm. Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. Enterprise concept comes up like remark, bookmark. Cool.
And I am simply telling the algorithm, that is what I would like. That is what I would like. That is what I would like. After which if I wish to calm down, I am going to a distinct Instagram account and watch the Alfon, proper? In order that trains the algorithm to indicate me stuff that I can hopefully add worth to. I see one thing attention-grabbing at e-book market, e-book market, e-book market.
After which on Monday mornings, I put aside one to 2 hours. I am going via my bookmarks. I am going to watch a video and I am going to say, okay. And like, that is like, That is an entire nother dialog, however that performs into the argument of focus versus not focus due to the truth that I do not focus I will simply and rapidly cross reference issues.
So I am going to see a shortens like oh, yeah, this that is it growth After which okay, bought it. Pull out my cellphone hit file. No script. No teleprompter I simply type of pause as I might consider my Anna that I’ve my hook pause assume pause assume Add to my editor. She takes out the pauses and edits it.
Jared: So some ways quick kind video for you is ideal as a result of it is not overly scripted.
It is not overly, it’s a medium, nearly prefers an unscripted fast, uh, fast take method, which nearly mirrors your persona and the best way you take a look at enterprise. And, uh, the best way he described content material gathering, it is nearly like your personal, you are your personal private RSS feed, proper? Like. Create as a substitute of the olden days of RSS feeds, the place we really would simply get that each one fed into one repository.
You are nearly going out and creating and nearly tailoring every platform and every dialog with different enterprise homeowners and different folks to present you all these concepts to create content material on.
Chris: Yeah, precisely.
Jared: How does the funneling work? You talked about the way you’re doing quick kind video to advertise your podcast.
You additionally talked about it generates a number of electronic mail subscribers for you. I may be a very detailed query, however I believe it is one which lots of people listening may need. How do you information folks to an electronic mail checklist on quick kind video content material whenever you’re really type of underpinning your podcast on the similar time?
Chris: Yeah, good query. So I’ve, I’ve bounced backwards and forwards between the 2. So over the autumn I, I’d put a name to motion in my podcast on the finish of each quick, I’ll by no means, ever, ever publish a brief and not using a name to motion. And I do not, frankly, I do not perceive why anybody does, , and I do know the argument it is, effectively, I’ve a name to motion.
Then the engagement or the attain will not be as excessive trigger it is, it is a gross sales pitch. Even when the decision to motion is observe me, observe me. It is a gross sales pitch and the algorithm will suppress it. Uh, no, like you are able to do it proper. Like it may well’t be a 5 second name to motion, however a two second name to motion on the finish on a 50 second video, , in the event that they watch the entire thing, even when they skip out within the final two seconds, you continue to have 95 % retention, proper?
So I’ll put a name to motion on the finish of each single video. Generally simply to observe me nearly each time. Both to hearken to the podcast or to subscribe to my e-newsletter. So over the autumn, it was at all times, , take a look at my podcast, um, on the very finish and my podcast grew and it was superior. Um, however I wasn’t getting any e-newsletter subscribers and I worth a subscriber greater than a podcast listener or obtain.
And so within the final couple of months. I push every little thing to the identical touchdown web page after which they fall into my e-newsletter and there I discuss in regards to the podcast. Now, , a superb click on via fee is 5%. And so theoretically, even when I solely push my podcast, then my podcast goes to develop considerably much less as a result of solely 5 % of these subscribers will ever click on to my podcast.
However internet of internet. I would a lot slightly have a e-newsletter subscriber that opens even when they don’t seem to be clicking, then a loyal, um, podcast
Jared: obtain. That is sensible. Okay. That, that, that, that clarifies it a bit. So does lengthy kind content material come into play in any respect in your present technique to develop
Chris: extra followers? Yeah. For my part, if I am unable to get anybody from quick kind content material to lengthy kind content material, then it is a waste.
Like I am, everybody loves dopamine. I am no exception, however I am not within the consideration recreation. Proper? Like there are folks that have hundreds of thousands of followers and so they similar to the dopamine and perhaps they will do an affiliate deal and, however like, that is not me. I, I, I go online to Instagram for enterprise and I wish to push folks down the funnel.
Finish of story. And so statistically talking, over 90 % of my quick kind viewers, perhaps 99 % won’t ever go anyplace. They’re going to keep in that a part of the funnel. Um, as a result of if I get a, if I get a brief that will get one million views, that may most likely deliver me. 200 subscribers, fraction of a %. So tiny, however that is okay.
After which of these 200 subscribers. Possibly two of them purchase one thing from me, however that is okay. If I could make a brief in 5 minutes and I am, I’ve a backlog, a whole lot of movies deep, then I simply, I preserve pumping out shorts.
Jared: I believe it is actually good for folks to listen to as a result of any person who begins out on shorts and perhaps will get, , Has their, has one among their movies, , do effectively for a beginning account.
Possibly it will get 25, 000 views, 30, 000 views. They usually look and so they’re like, I did not get a single subscriber. And that was my greatest performing video of the week. This is not going to work. I imply, you are sharing like, Hey, I am going to do it. I am going to get one million, one million views and get 200 subscribers. Proper. And so there actually is a quantity recreation at play the place you need to proceed to supply this at quantity and at scale with a purpose to construct a snowball impact to get the subscribers.
Chris: However I’ll say. The million view to 200 subscribers. I am speaking about electronic mail subscribers. E-mail. Yeah. Whereas one million views to Instagram followers, it is most likely like 5, 000 or two to five, 000, which is critical. Now there’s two colleges of thought. A whole lot of sensible folks say followers do not matter anymore.
Subscribers do not matter. It is all algorithmically pushed. You recognize, the for you web page is simply going to push it, whether or not you have got followers or not. That is true to an extent, proper? But when, in the event you go take a look at any influencer enterprise or in any other case that has, as an example one million followers, they may submit a video of them farting or simply doing one thing silly, and it is going to get 50 to 100 thousand views, proper?
Which is 5 to 10 % of their follower base. Uh, or they may submit one thing actually excessive worth and it might get 30 million views. And so the extra followers you have got, the decrease your flooring will get, the decrease your, the upper your baseline will get. Uh, so it is not completely true. And I’ve AB examined it. I’ve shadow accounts, two followers, uh, and I am going to take previous viral content material.
That is the algorithm has confirmed has blessed that that is good and I am going to submit it there and it is crickets, proper? So followers do matter. Prefer it’s, it is extra information factors for the algorithm to work with. Does that make sense?
Jared: Yeah. No, it does. It does. And it is also proof there’s multiple metric to guage success in the case of stuff like this.
You recognize, you possibly can, you will get followers and subscribers. You can too get extra podcast downloads and it feels like you have got a number of other ways to succeed with each single quick kind video you produce. What are your emails like? Uh, it sounds such as you’re funneling folks to your electronic mail. Properly, clearly it does not sound like that.
You clearly are. What are your, what are your emails like? Um, and once more, simply from a excessive stage, like frequency, um, uh, quick versus lengthy. Um, , you by no means publish a video and not using a name to motion. Maybe your emails are comparable. How, how is the construction made up? Discuss to us about your electronic mail.
Chris: My emails are.
Usually 1000 to 3000 phrases as soon as per week, each single time, as soon as per week. Um, my name to motion in my electronic mail is I am essentially the most conservative, like essentially the most protecting of my electronic mail checklist. Like after I promote to them sooner or later, it is going to be very calculated. And it is not simply going to be a one off affiliate hyperlink, or it is going to be after a number of analysis, proper?
I take their electronic mail tackle very severely. So, however , there are a number of sorts of calls to motion. I, I, I requested them to share it. I’ve a referral program. Um, I’ve polls and each single electronic mail. So on the finish of the e-mail, I understand how effectively they appreciated it or not. And that tells me what to double down on.
Uh, or I’ll, I am going to use chat GPT to generate say 50. Industries. I am going to say, , give me 50 area of interest house service industries which can be rising in reputation proper now, stress washing, gutter cleansing, yada, yada, yada. I am going to put these in a sort kind and on the prime of my e-newsletter, I am going to say, Hey, what do you wish to find out about?
Here is 50 choices. You’ll be able to vote on as much as 10 of them. Um, after which a whole lot of individuals will vote. After which certain sufficient, bounce homes proper on the prime. And , up till a month in the past, it is like, Oh, I believe concrete leveling is cool. Let’s interview a concrete leveling man. And no, like now I say to you, inform me what’s cool as a result of I genuinely love All of them.
Like I am not sacrificing any mental integrity as a result of I simply love enterprise. I really like commerce. Proper? So my name to motion from them immediately is like, let’s get some information from you. So I do know what to place on the market, however I am not, I haven’t got any adverts in it and I am not promoting something overtly and I haven’t got a paid e-newsletter.
It is solely free.
Jared: It is solely free. What’s the purpose for the e-newsletter then from a excessive stage? I imply, that may be a query that I am certain you have got a solution to, however what’s the objective of the e-mail e-newsletter in your general model? That is a superb
Chris: query. I, I am truthfully, um, I am completely nice enjoying the lengthy, lengthy, lengthy recreation.
Um, I haven’t got to monetize it anytime quickly. Um, however I’ll, like, I am going to most likely have a paid model sooner or later. Um, I am going to most likely have a neighborhood sooner or later. I do know I will do adverts sooner or later. Um, I’ve accomplished affiliate hyperlinks, so I’ve monetized in type of a sneaky manner utilizing issues that I really use and, and endorse.
Um, however that is not even significant income. Um, the, the purpose is to, is due to the truth that I am vertically built-in. Proper. I’ve an incubator. I begin companies. We’re beginning a advertising and marketing company right here quickly, and I will likely be promoting issues, um, to the e-newsletter. I simply, I am on version like 64 now. So it has been 64 weeks.
Um, and I’ve by no means actually. Uh, offered something to them but.
Jared: What sort of, um, what sort of, uh, any tricks to share that you’ve got realized from sending feels like 64 weekly emails? Like what are some methods you have picked up alongside the best way or some attention-grabbing findings you have had that perhaps you did not count on whenever you began off?
Chris: Yeah. So, , just like the, the midwit meme the place it has just like the distribution curve, you have bought the man on one aspect and the man on the opposite aspect, like I am, as a lot as I hop round from factor to factor. E-mail has been a relentless. I am obsessive about electronic mail. I really like electronic mail. And I really feel prefer it’s one of many issues I am, I am good at.
Whereas a number of issues I am okay at, , um, the center of that midwit meme for electronic mail is like, what time of the day are you going to ship? What’s your topic line? Properly, what number of phrases, what’s your hook? Yada, yada, yada. And like, The extra I be taught, the extra you have got a loyal viewers, the much less that stuff issues.
Um, my topic line breaks each rule within the e-book and I do not do it in my different companies. Um, my topic line is e-newsletter quantity, like hashtag 0 0 0 6, Um, that is my topic line after which each week it, , increments of 1 after which my preview textual content will likely be lower than three phrases, simply one thing that talks in regards to the electronic mail and I’ve had a bunch of individuals say, Hey, you are not optimizing your electronic mail like I’ve an company.
I might promote you X, Y or Z your topic and I am like, I’ve a B examined it. I actually have. I did it the primary week and my opening line was type of a joke. It is like, I will, I will have this article till the day I die. And that is version primary. And I am so optimistic I will make it six digits.
Um, so it is simply type of a joke that I by no means stopped enjoying. And now like nobody even is aware of why, however I’ve AB examined it and the e-newsletter hashtag at all times wins. And in order that type of breaks each rule. However then with my e commerce enterprise, I’d by no means try this. Um, my topic traces are optimized and I AB check it.
Um, however one factor I’ve observed is shorter is like at all times higher, shorter topic line, three phrases or much less. I do not care what it’s. If it unsure, shorter is healthier. Um, And so in some methods, like I am actually maniacal about information. In some methods, I am not ship time. It is each time I get round to writing it or sending it, I do not schedule something.
Um, however I, I’m very maniacal about segmentation. So I do know if a subscriber got here from Instagram, Tik TOK threads, YouTube neighborhood. My pinned YouTube remark, my YouTube description. I’ve all these segmented otherwise and I observe the open click on and unsubscribe charges between all of them. Um, and it simply tells me which platforms have essentially the most loyal subscribers, which platforms do I really want to lean into to get extra e-newsletter subscribers?
And that is been actually useful.
Jared: Which platform does have one of the best subscribers?
Chris: So it’s the one that everybody’s moved on from, like, we’re all accomplished with Fb, Fb. That is what I used to be going to say. Fb is like, Hey, I am nonetheless right here. We’re doing nice. Um, we’re doing simply nice. And they’re the one platform the place you possibly can, effectively, exterior of YouTube, they’re out of Instagram, Fb reels or, and YouTube shorts.
It is the one one the place you possibly can pin a remark that has a, like a blue clickable hyperlink in it. And that’s extremely helpful.
Jared: How attention-grabbing that the unique platform that began suppressing natural development and never wanting folks to maneuver off their platform is the one that you just say creates essentially the most loyal followers and permits folks to maneuver from Fb to your electronic mail checklist.
Chris: And it is, it is good as a result of I get essentially the most subscribers from Fb and so they’re essentially the most loyal. Um, and I am not likely competing of their inbox for a lot. I’ve had a number of subscribers inform me, I do not even know what an electronic mail e-newsletter was, , like they subscribed to mattress, bathtub and beyonds mailing checklist or, , no matter.
However they’re like, in the event you’re on Twitter, like newsletters are a bubble, prefer it’s about to burst that they are oversaturated, however that is like 1 % of the true world. Newsletters are usually not a factor like on Important Avenue, so to talk.
Jared: So what is that this technique? What perhaps give us some numbers, in the event you might, round what this method, this excessive stage method, , quick kind content material, Podcast electronic mail e-newsletter.
Like what sort of followers are you gaining on a month-to-month foundation proper now?
Chris: I, I’ve like two KPIs that I observe one is a views per follower. And that helps me know the way effectively my calls to motion are doing. Um, and I observe followers throughout platforms. Um, so I simply add all of them up cumulatively and observe them on a each day, weekly, month-to-month, yearly foundation.
So views per follower. And that is at about 300 give or take. Um, and that is common. Um, each 300 folks that sees one thing that I do will hit observe or subscribe or no matter. Um, after which the opposite one is followers per day, FPD aggregated throughout platforms. And I have been averaging eight to 11, 000, um, followers per day.
So final month I added 270, 000, which was. It was a file bump.
Jared: That’s a number of followers. That’s loopy. After which whenever you translate that into views, in the event you’re getting over 10, 000 new followers a day and it takes 300 views to get a follower, then that signifies that there are such a lot of views taking place each day, I’d think about.
Chris: Yeah, yeah, I, I often get between 50 and 130 million views a month. Most of these quick kind. I want they have been lengthy
Jared: kind, however most are quick. So that you’re getting quick kind content material up there. I heard you speak about Instagram. Are you publishing the identical quick kind content material throughout plenty of platforms? And the way does that work?
As a result of each platform is a little bit completely different in how You recognize, you tweak it, how you’re employed it, the way it responds to it, how folks have interaction with it, et cetera.
Chris: Yeah. It is so attention-grabbing. Trigger there’s this lady named Jenny Hoyos. Have you ever heard of her? Yeah. Yeah. She’s just like the shorts King and he or she preaches that, um, everybody’s completely completely different.
She has a really comparatively small Instagram following and an enormous YouTube following similar movies. Um, and so I took that to coronary heart, however one factor I’ve observed is in a manner, they’re all the identical as a result of all of them simply need one factor. Like all of them need a bunch of stuff, however on the finish of the day, they need retention, proper?
In case your factor retains them on, retains customers on their app longer, they’ll push it to extra folks after which extra after which extra after which extra, and so they’ll preserve testing it and testing it till folks do not care about it anymore. Um, YouTube. In my expertise is the toughest to go viral, however it can keep viral the longest.
It’s the most evergreen, proper? So what I used to do was I’d have like a 3 to 4 second name to motion exterior of YouTube, after which a very fast name to motion on YouTube. As a result of. TOK are the one platforms that may present you a retention chart of your shorts. Um, and I’d simply see it fall off a cliff on YouTube.
Um, whereas on Instagram, I do not know trigger they do not present me. Proper. However now I simply have a lightning quick name to motion throughout all platforms. And the one factor I alter on the calls to motion are what the onscreen textual content is. So Fb, it is prime hyperlink, , hit the pin touch upon Instagram It is. After which on YouTube, it is the URL of my touchdown web page, which is six letters, straightforward to spell, straightforward to learn as a result of they should sort it in and it is a number of friction.
Um, so I do customise my calls to motion per video, however simply on the onscreen web page. Textual content name to motion, however each video in any other case is the very same, similar period, similar hook, similar every little thing. And, um, I am rising, I am not rising equally quick on all platforms. I am nonetheless rising rather well on all platforms with that technique.
Jared: I do know it is a tough query to reply, uh, which is at all times laborious whenever you hear that. You are like, effectively, then why are you asking me? I am attempting to, I am desirous about the listener proper now who’s attempting to resolve perhaps which platform works greatest for the kind of content material they’re, they’re making. Um, I suppose the primary query of a two half is, do you advocate going to all platforms such as you’re doing Fb, Instagram, Twitter, Tik TOK, YouTube, and have you ever discovered sure platforms work higher for sure sorts of content material?
If somebody is attempting to resolve.
Chris: I’ve, however, um, Oh, I even have my assistant wanting into that proper now, wish to what it’s. Trigger like I’ve observed anecdotally house service enterprise concepts do rather well on Fb. Um, they do not do effectively on Tik TOK. And my assumption is as a result of Tik TOK could be very worldwide and, , a concrete leveling enterprise doesn’t apply in Estonia.
You recognize, only for no matter purpose. Um, however typically talking of this, one other technique I take advantage of, I’ll submit to tick tock first, uh, trigger I care the least about tick tock, however it exhibits me a retention chart. So I am going to submit a tick tock and wait an hour and take a look at the retention chart. And if I’ve, um, at the very least half of % of viewers following me.
I do know it is a thumbs up. If I, if individuals are watching on common, 40 % of my video, I do know it is a thumbs up if I see these issues. I am going to submit as is to the opposite platforms. If I do not, um, then I am going to both, effectively, some, I used to not submit stuff, however now I simply submit every little thing. I’ll typically lower one thing.
There’s nearly by no means one thing so as to add. There’s nearly at all times one thing to chop. So I am going to take a look at the retention charts. Like, Oh yeah, they’re dropping off at this sentence and that is most likely distracting. And I am simply guessing. I do not actually know. Proper. Or that sentence does not actually add any worth to the purpose of the general video.
So let me simply lower that out altogether after which let’s submit in every single place. Um, typically talking, if a video takes off within the first check on tick tock, it is going to take off in every single place typically, however generally it’s going to solely YouTube and nowhere else, or solely go viral on Instagram and nowhere else. However that is fairly uncommon.
Jared: Which one is the best for you and your workforce to handle when it comes to The general means of getting content material reside on it, managing perhaps feedback or every other sorts of interactions is one that you just discovered at scale, simpler to work with.
Chris: Oh, effectively, um, Instagram and Fb are good as a result of you need to use many chat automations at hand, to deal with a number of stuff, however truthfully, there are, I do not add myself anymore.
Um, they’re all about the identical. Okay. Um, they are surely. It is. Logistically talking, it is It is annoying that you need to depart just like the app open on TOK whenever you’re importing a video. Uh, however apart from that, it does not actually make a distinction. We, now we have observed, um, a giant distinction in cross posting. We do not cross submit something.
Like we do not use any automations. We do not use any, like additionally publish the threads additionally printed to Fb. I heard like anecdotally that. Your attain will likely be suppressed in the event you try this. Um, however I assumed, what? There isn’t any manner as a result of the platforms simply need you to maintain customers on the platform. And why would it not matter?
You recognize, if it is viral, why would they care? It issues. I am right here to inform you it issues. So I used to auto publish to Fb reels, simply with the toggle swap inside Instagram. Um, and I by no means, ever as soon as had a Fb reel outpace an Instagram reel, not even as soon as. After which I finished doing that. And we did it the more durable manner.
I say more durable in quotations since you’re simply importing a video. Um, and now I routinely have In truth, perhaps even on common, my Fb reels do higher than my Instagram reels, though I’ve half as many followers over there.
Jared: That is actually good suggestions. That is actually excellent news. Um, yeah, we, we, we wish the shortcut.
Chris: We would like just like the, the panacea or the silver bullet and like, Oh, this one cool device is barely 9 99 a month. And I add every little thing and it simply pushes it out or opus. ai. I can simply add my podcast and we’ll spit out 30 clips. After which I can use this Zapier integration to add the 30 clips in every single place.
After which. I will have the regulation of huge numbers, 10 % will go viral. I am sorry. Like, I am simply sorry. It isn’t straightforward. It does not work. Yeah. No. The more durable manner is often the higher manner. And that is a superb framework only for life.
Jared: Properly, you talked about you are not importing your self anymore, which is an effective segue right into a query I’ve on my agenda right here.
I am going to ask it now. What does your workforce appear to be? Um, it sounds prefer it’s not simply you now. So what’s it? What does it appear to be? Who does what? How huge is it? So I,
Chris: I, I’d take into account it a reasonably small workforce primarily based on folks that I’ve talked to, however I’ve a digital assistant, um, Within the Philippines that she’s like my proper hand girl, so to talk, she’s in my pinned.
I message. I made certain she has an iPhone and he or she most likely works 60 hours per week and he or she edits all my movies. She posts all my movies. She takes my lengthy kind written content material. And manually cross posts, posts in every single place. I’ve this grasp Google sheet the place she tracks all of my numbers. Each Monday she updates them first of the month.
She updates them from the prior month. She’s like my most key individual. After which I’ve a thumbnail man, um, that I cut up with my enterprise companion as a result of he places out a number of content material too. He is actually, actually good. He is in Turkey. Um, after which I’ve, uh, an editor. Uh, identify Mohamed, he is actually good and he is in, um, I believe India after which I’ve a, like a, an administrative assistant in Spain that simply helps with random stuff.
Um, so my administrative assistant and my thumbnail man and my editor. I actually solely use half of I share them with my companion after which my content material supervisor, um, she works 60 hours per week, so
Jared: I’d agree. Yeah, fairly small given the least to type of observe ship following or follower numbers you are producing and the quantity of content material you are producing.
That is nice. Um, uh, I suppose most likely the elephant within the room for lots of people proper now. So I am simply gonna ask the query. The quantity of views. And thus followers you are driving. It simply appears insane. Given the best way you speak about the way you create content material, given the best way you speak about the way you create concepts and like, what different ideas are you able to share?
As a result of these numbers simply appear so unapproachable in so some ways. And. Your technique, I do not wish to say it is easy, however it’s very efficient. And I am simply, what different issues are you able to buckle down and simply dig into that may permit somebody listening who has been combating gaining a followership who has been perhaps dabbling briefly kind content material or writing lengthy emails or no matter it’s they’re selecting, however they’re struggling to get greater than two or three followers a day.
Chris: Nice query. Um, so I’d begin by coaching your algorithm. Like I stated, have a separate, I’d simply begin on Instagram trigger it is labored nice for me. Um, I am certain you can do the identical on every other platform. I’d begin on Instagram and no matter area of interest you are in, as an example you are, you, you promote a pet toys on e commerce.
I’d begin. On Instagram coaching, the algorithm to indicate you, uh, rivals or householders which have canines, uh, simply something that might offer you inspiration, spark inspiration, um, bookmark, like remark, do no matter it takes to indicate the algorithm that you just like that content material and be very strict on that. So that you begin there.
Then you are going to come throughout creators that You are that you just’re admiring and also you, okay. I actually appreciated that. I wish to do a few of that and simply begin being attentive to kinds, proper? Um, perhaps it is like a skit. Possibly it is like a nonetheless picture with textual content. Possibly it is a three second, um, video on loop with texts, one thing.
And then you definately simply need a bunch of buckets of content material. Okay. So you have bought that in a Google doc, after which you are going to discover the precise creators that you’ll observe. And these are folks that you’ll type of emulate in a manner. Um, after which go to social blade. I take advantage of social blade religiously.
I’ve a ten a month account, and you are going to lookup these creators and save them and observe their follower development. As a result of, , we talked about, , Followers are meaningless as a result of the algorithm pushes it. No, they don’t seem to be. However views are meaningless as a result of in case your views aren’t changing to followers, then you definately’re actually getting nothing.
They are surely. Proper? Yeah. So go discover the creators which can be hacking many chat or which can be hacking an attention-grabbing name to motion. Are they, are they saying, , learn the remark? Are they saying hyperlink in bio or they’re saying remark the phrase X, Y, or Z. So many chat is triggered, see what they’re doing after which observe their follower development.
So that you, so you can weed out those that simply have vainness metrics and hone in on those which can be really rising their follower base, proper? How are they utilizing tales? Are they posting a number of tales a day? One a day, one per week, and simply begin copying them. After which after you have a base constructed and every little thing I simply defined, you can do a begin in a day and then you definately simply should cease caring.
About, uh, no matter you publish and like, I am like, everybody cares what folks take into consideration them. I do not care what you say. Everybody does. There’s simply, it is a spectrum. Proper. Um, I began a model new account. I did not wish to use my private account and that was simply out of delight and ego. I did not need folks judging me that I went to highschool with, , however truthfully I had 400 followers there.
The distinction between 400 and 0 is meaningless. So I began a model new account and I simply handled it as each single person who sees these dumb movies. They do not know about me. They do not care about me. So I do not care about them. I am simply gonna, that is my playground, my sandbox. After which I simply take every little thing I realized from the folks on the very same platform and simply begin throwing spaghetti on the wall.
Um, CapCut. I’d get CapCut Professional, 10 a month. Uh, it has a characteristic the place it can routinely take away pauses. Uh, Descript, the Mac app. It is actually good. It is even higher for eradicating pauses. Inferior to CapCut for enhancing. Um, I put auto captions on every little thing and be taught hooks, proper? In case you see a video that goes viral, write down what the hook was.
And how will you copy that very same hook? And you don’t need any useless house in your video, no useless house, no white house. And, um, all else equal, the algorithm will favor longer movies. Um, all of it comes down to not, uh, like common view share. Common seconds watched, proper? So I would slightly have, um, um, a 90 second video on Instagram that folks watch 50 % of, so 45 seconds, then, um, a 30 second video that folks watch 100% of, and the algorithm will favor that.
Although they’re solely watching half of it, you are retaining them on the platform for 50 % longer. So, um, however that is laborious, proper? It is simpler to place out one thing that is 10 seconds and catchy. So begin there. However then as you, as you’re feeling extra assured in your kinds and in your content material, then attempt to make them longer as a result of the longer it’s, If it is prime quality, the upper probability it can have of going viral.
Jared: You have talked about hooks a few instances. What’s a hook from a excessive stage and what makes a superb hook?
Chris: Okay. So it took me most likely, it took me most likely 40 movies to even take into consideration hooks. So in the event you’re listening to this, you may be manner forward of the sport than I used to be. Um, after which it took me about 150 movies to seek out my hook, which I take advantage of in nearly each video now.
Um, So each single sentence you say must be engineered to get them to the subsequent sentence. So my hook that works one of the best immediately for me is take a look at this freaking man proper right here. Okay. These days, nearly each video I submit begins with that hook. Have a look at this freaking factor proper right here. Have a look at this freaking lady proper right here.
Have a look at this freaking man proper right here. And it is engineered to get them to the subsequent sentence. Okay. What, what am I ? What am I on the lookout for? After which I, and I break my very own rule on a regular basis. Trigger like I stated, it takes 5 minutes. If I have been to truly take an hour to script out my movies, I would most likely have a better hit fee.
Um, and so there must be one thing visually interesting occurring. Ideally that does not, does not should be the case, however it’s similar to good copywriting. You simply cannot lose them, ? So you bought it. It is similar to, you have bought a hook after which a re hook, hook, re hook, hook, preserve them hanging so long as you possibly can.
And. You simply bought to experiment with a bunch of stuff. Um, there’s one man on Instagram that posted movies about actually good hooks. Uh, it is referred to as one thing viral. I gotta discover it, however, uh, viral video membership, viral video. membership on Instagram. He has some actually good movies the place he lists out good hooks and I simply begin attempting these, like one other good one is, um, You guys should see what I discovered.
Jared: Yeah, I’ve seen that one. That is nice. That is nice. Um, Uh, yet one more query on that. It feels like you’re scripting most or all of what you are recording. Is that true? Is that essential? Have you ever tried not scripting? And why have you ever landed the place you have landed?
Chris: No, I, I do not script hardly something.
Jared: So that you, these hooks all are simply type of coming out of form and out of nature and out of an understanding of what your content material does and the way it pertains to your hook.
Chris: Yeah. So at this level, the hooks are intentional, proper? So you can name that half a script trigger it’s deliberate, however it took me a very long time to get there. Um, however every little thing else, it, I am similar to, I do not know. I, the one analogy I’d make, um, is like, so Taylor Swift, proper? She, she’s written a whole lot of songs and he or she’s printed a fraction of them.
And I am not very musically inclined and I’ve by no means understood that. Proper. I simply by no means, I am unable to wrap my head round it. Trigger it is not simply the phrases, it is bought the music, you bought to tie it in. You’ve the bridge, you have bought a number of choruses versus, and I simply by no means understood that. Um, however that is how she sees the world, proper?
She’s on a tour bus and he or she appears exterior and sees a pig and he or she’s like, Oh, that is attention-grabbing. And he or she makes all these connections and he or she’ll, she’ll write a tune in 5 minutes. And I see the world like an entrepreneur. Like I have been. So curious and so I am I will see issues actually quick, proper? And in order that’s an essential a part of it and it comes again to love the fervour verse Revenue argument, proper?
Comply with your ardour, observe the revenue. It is neither one. Um, in my view, revenue isn’t scalable. Ardour is, uh, so you need to begin getting cash. After which after you have, uh, then you possibly can actually observe your ardour and that may be infinitely scalable. So my ardour isn’t this enterprise or that enterprise.
It is simply enterprise. And so. That helps me see issues actually quick. So whoever’s listening, no matter your ardour is, in the event you’re about to make an Instagram account or develop your Instagram account on one thing that you do not actually really feel, , a number of, or one thing that you just’re not likely enthusiastic about, you are gonna, you are going to have author’s block on a regular basis.
And I, that simply cannot work, proper? It, so it is gotta be one thing that you could actually get vitality from studying about. So you possibly can simply crank out, uh, a number of content material.
Jared: Chris, this has been a very, uh, good tactically, uh, inspiring podcast interview. Thanks for approaching and sharing. Thanks. Nonetheless blows my thoughts simply the way you’re capable of put collectively a lot so rapidly that, uh, is, is, is simply so extremely effectively obtained by folks.
It is actually, um, it is downright inspiring. So thanks for sharing so many particulars and so many ideas. Uh, I believe my largest takeaway was whenever you shared that Fb creates essentially the most loyal viewers out of all people. That is, that is fascinating. In any case, Chris, thanks for popping out. The place can folks, I imply, observe together with what you are doing?
The place can folks type of go and be taught extra about what you are doing?
Chris: Yeah, I am a, I am the Kerner workplace on all social channels spelled like my final identify, Okay O E R N E R. And all of it lives at TKO pod. com as within the Kerner workplace podcast. So
Jared: that is nice. Chris, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us, uh, a lot continued success.
And we’ll discuss to you once more quickly. All proper. Thanks.
